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Old 16th May 2011, 07:30 AM   #1
Tim Simmons
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I can see no reason why you could not seriously hurt a person with one.
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Old 17th May 2011, 11:33 AM   #2
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Coming in late on this one with my .2 cents. On many of these early axes, the "hammer" was in fact a counter-weight to the cutting edge. It was the same on colonial American trade axes, native American tomahawks, etc. I don't think these were strictly utility, but like the above mentioned axes, were probably both a tool and a weapon. Their thickened, bearded blades very closely resemble many boarding axes of the period sans spike.(again, a tool and in time of need, a lethal weapon) The patterning, although it could be E. Euro, strikes me as E Indian, so-called Hindi-dot pattern. I've seen somethiong like these on the old defunct tomahawks page. Perhaps I can find the link...
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Old 17th May 2011, 11:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
Coming in late on this one with my .2 cents. On many of these early axes, the "hammer" was in fact a counter-weight to the cutting edge. It was the same on colonial American trade axes, native American tomahawks, etc. I don't think these were strictly utility, but like the above mentioned axes, were probably both a tool and a weapon. Their thickened, bearded blades very closely resemble many boarding axes of the period sans spike.(again, a tool and in time of need, a lethal weapon) The patterning, although it could be E. Euro, strikes me as E Indian, so-called Hindi-dot pattern. I've seen somethiong like these on the old defunct tomahawks page. Perhaps I can find the link...

More the merrier. Thanks for coming into the discussion

I've taken some proper measurements:
The larger axe head is 13.5cm/10cm, Weighing (approx) 380g minus the shaft.
The smaller axe head is 10.5cm/9.25cm weighing about the same: 380g.


Just as a page 2 reminder, here they are again:
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Last edited by Atlantia; 17th May 2011 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 17th May 2011, 04:23 PM   #4
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Looking at the hammer head....2 things spring to mind. One.... efficient hammer 'faces' are very slightly domed, these are flat, secondly, there seems to be no marks/damage indicating use as a hammer.

I too believe that these are purely for balance. Below I have marked the axe heads with the centre of the shaft hole, the edge of the hammer and the back edge of the blade. The distance from the centre line to the hammer edge and the centre line to the back edge are almost identical (in ratio)for each axe. The measurements are approx. on the picture and are only to scale (so not actual dimensions), but I hope it shows better what I mean.The maker seems to have been very exacting in ensuring 'balance'. On a long shaft this would be important as imbalance would be more exagerated as the shaft is 'lengthened'.

When I first saw these axes, I immediately thought Indian. I do not think these are utilitarian. The angle of the blade (off-set, diagonal from the shaft) would not be ideal for cutting wood etc. (better to have the blade in-line with the haft) Some carpenter axes are off-set (left or right, from the centre line) but are still in-line to the shaft.

I believe the angle of the axe blade is to ensure a good cut when it is mount on a long shaft and used from horseback.....I believe that these are IMHO saddle axes.

Kind Regards David
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Old 17th May 2011, 04:57 PM   #5
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These pictures might help. I know a vase of flowers is seen on many Persian and Turkic carpets but I still do not see the work on these axes as Turkish or further east.
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Old 17th May 2011, 05:38 PM   #6
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It seems these axes may be explained by 'cultural movement'.

The Roma (Romani) were Hindu's that originated from North India and due to historic reasons migrated and diffused into Eastern Europe and beyond. A lot of Roma resided in Hungary ...and therefore had cultural roots in India. Perhaps the axe design is indeed Indian ...but with 'local' decoration .....

Regards David

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Old 18th May 2011, 11:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
These pictures might help. I know a vase of flowers is seen on many Persian and Turkic carpets but I still do not see the work on these axes as Turkish or further east.
Hi Tim,

Again, excellent detective work. The similarites are undeniable.
We must be close to finding another example now!

Best
Gene
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Old 18th May 2011, 12:18 PM   #8
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Remember, Any 'lurker' who can help, please email me at:
gimmieitbaby@aol.com
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Old 18th May 2011, 11:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katana
Looking at the hammer head....2 things spring to mind. One.... efficient hammer 'faces' are very slightly domed, these are flat, secondly, there seems to be no marks/damage indicating use as a hammer.

I too believe that these are purely for balance. Below I have marked the axe heads with the centre of the shaft hole, the edge of the hammer and the back edge of the blade. The distance from the centre line to the hammer edge and the centre line to the back edge are almost identical (in ratio)for each axe. The measurements are approx. on the picture and are only to scale (so not actual dimensions), but I hope it shows better what I mean.The maker seems to have been very exacting in ensuring 'balance'. On a long shaft this would be important as imbalance would be more exagerated as the shaft is 'lengthened'.

When I first saw these axes, I immediately thought Indian. I do not think these are utilitarian. The angle of the blade (off-set, diagonal from the shaft) would not be ideal for cutting wood etc. (better to have the blade in-line with the haft) Some carpenter axes are off-set (left or right, from the centre line) but are still in-line to the shaft.

I believe the angle of the axe blade is to ensure a good cut when it is mount on a long shaft and used from horseback.....I believe that these are IMHO saddle axes.

Kind Regards David

Excellent thinking!
I've been wracking my brain, as I'm sure I had an axe with an ofset angled cutting edge before. But I've had som many over the last 25+ years I can't remember which one it was!
Both of these two has that feature, although it's only slight on the other one.
Great detective work BTW
Best
Gene
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