Small axes for ID

Atlantia · 15th May 2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Nice axes you have. I collect arabian axes from the Mussandam peninsular, at the gateway to the Gulf. The tribal group there (Shihuh) have an axe which doubles up as a walking stick utility item/defensive weapon and badge of office icon. It appears to originate from the Persian Luristani axe. The shaft almost 3 feet long and various sizes of axehead from about 2 inches long to about 3 and a half.

Hi Ibrahiim,

Very impressive collection you've got there!
Interesting that one of yours has a very similarly shaped distinctive 'hammer' back to the ones on mine (below)

Best
Gene

Tim Simmons · 15th May 2011, 04:48 PM

These are European. East European. Hungarian/Romanian or other east European herders weapon tools.

Atlantia · 15th May 2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

These are European. East European. Hungarian/Romanian or other east European herders weapon tools.

C'mon Tim

European is OK, but herders weapons!!!

Do you have any references or examples?

Best
Gene

Tim Simmons · 15th May 2011, 05:30 PM

The tulip motif seen here is a very standard decorative pattern on Hungarian and Romania "folk art" these look like very nice old pieces. Rural folk would have decorated items like this to chop wood and hammer things way before B&Q DIY stores. I do not have pictures of the very same axes but lots of pictures showing the style and decorative devises used to decorate and make jolly all sorts of domestic items. Folk art is very sought after.

Jim McDougall · 15th May 2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The tulip motif seen here is a very standard decorative pattern on Hungarian and Romania "folk art" these look like very nice old pieces. Rural folk would have decorated items like this to chop wood and hammer things way before B&Q DIY stores. I do not have pictures of the very same axes but lots of pictures showing the style and decorative devises used to decorate and make jolly all sorts of domestic items. Folk art is very sought after.

The tulip motif is a highly favored Ottoman device which was favored as well in earlier Mughal courts, but the tulip rage in the 17th century certainly carried influences from the Netherlands far across Europe, and as noted was key in folk art context in Eastern Europe. Im not sure whether that would be connected in any way, but the tulip as motif was definitely widespread and notable.

Atlantia · 15th May 2011, 05:46 PM

Would it be useful if I cleaned one up to show clearer pictures?

Thanks everyone

Jim, the short shafts on them are rubbish, clearly been on them for a while, but nowhere near as old as the axes.

I scoured the car boot sales today for vintage gardening tools and got two 40+ year old long handled Hoes with beautiful straight grained shafts.
Both 4'+ long

Which will be good if we can 100% positively ID these so I can remake the correct shafts.
They are so distinctive with the punched decoration and octagonal to circular hammer backs.
Both are very similar but different, so I'd venture that they may well be representative of a specific ethnographic type, rather than possibly just an atypical pair.
Interestingly, one has dot decoration all across the face of the hammer and around it randomly 'peppering' the surface.
So I'd guess that at least the hammer part is not meant to be used as a tool?

Tim Simmons · 15th May 2011, 06:43 PM

You have not shown the handles. Here are a few pictures of Hungarian folk art. I could add lots more. Agreed the tulip is also seen on Ottoman artefacts but I do not think what we have here is the case.

Jim McDougall · 15th May 2011, 05:29 PM

The stippled decoration on the axe face, I agree with Runjeet, does seem to correspond to this kind of decoration in India in later period, 19th century. It should be noted that it is also a characteristic of markings on the weapons in Bikaner armoury in Rajasthan, which simply reveals that the punched dot style for decoration and inscription was popular in these regions....I am not suggesting these are from Bikaner, nor armoury applied, only the style of decoration.

I recall seeing the small head, long shaft type utilitarian walking axes that Tim has mentioned for Eastern European regions, as well as similar as mentioned by Ibrahim on the Arabian peninsula.

While serving as walking staffs these certainly would double as weapons much in the sense of the well known sword canes of Europe....so you're right Gene, I think you got a weapon here

I think shorter shafts would simply indicate more of a belt axe.

All best regards,
Jim

15th May 2011, 05:46 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Would it be useful if I cleaned one up to show clearer pictures? Thanks everyone Jim, the short shafts on them are rubbish, clearly been on them for a while, but nowhere near as old as the axes. I scoured the car boot sales today for vintage gardening tools and got two 40+ year old long handled Hoes with beautiful straight grained shafts. Both 4'+ long Which will be good if we can 100% positively ID these so I can remake the correct shafts. They are so distinctive with the punched decoration and octagonal to circular hammer backs. Both are very similar but different, so I'd venture that they may well be representative of a specific ethnographic type, rather than possibly just an atypical pair. Interestingly, one has dot decoration all across the face of the hammer and around it randomly 'peppering' the surface. So I'd guess that at least the hammer part is not meant to be used as a tool? Last edited by Atlantia; 15th May 2011 at 06:16 PM.

15th May 2011, 06:43 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	You have not shown the handles. Here are a few pictures of Hungarian folk art. I could add lots more. Agreed the tulip is also seen on Ottoman artefacts but I do not think what we have here is the case. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 15th May 2011 at 07:03 PM.

15th May 2011, 04:48 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	These are European. East European. Hungarian/Romanian or other east European herders weapon tools.

15th May 2011, 05:30 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	The tulip motif seen here is a very standard decorative pattern on Hungarian and Romania "folk art" these look like very nice old pieces. Rural folk would have decorated items like this to chop wood and hammer things way before B&Q DIY stores. I do not have pictures of the very same axes but lots of pictures showing the style and decorative devises used to decorate and make jolly all sorts of domestic items. Folk art is very sought after.

15th May 2011, 05:29 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	The stippled decoration on the axe face, I agree with Runjeet, does seem to correspond to this kind of decoration in India in later period, 19th century. It should be noted that it is also a characteristic of markings on the weapons in Bikaner armoury in Rajasthan, which simply reveals that the punched dot style for decoration and inscription was popular in these regions....I am not suggesting these are from Bikaner, nor armoury applied, only the style of decoration. I recall seeing the small head, long shaft type utilitarian walking axes that Tim has mentioned for Eastern European regions, as well as similar as mentioned by Ibrahim on the Arabian peninsula. While serving as walking staffs these certainly would double as weapons much in the sense of the well known sword canes of Europe....so you're right Gene, I think you got a weapon here I think shorter shafts would simply indicate more of a belt axe. All best regards, Jim