Small axes for ID

[Atlantia]

Remember, Any 'lurker' who can help, please email me at:
gimmieitbaby@aol.com

[Atlantia]

'Romulus' a Romanian member on another forum has been discussing the possible connection with E.Europe.
He has concluded:
"About the Huzzulen ("Hutsuls" in english, "Huţuli" in romanian)... You could find some more informations here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls
They are not the only mountaineers in the Romanian Carpathians, but they are a distinctive group with a blurred origin. They speak a dialect of the ukrainean language mixed with romanian influences. They live in two main areas in Romania : Bukowina (Bucovina in romanian) and in Upper Moldavia (mountain part of Moldavia, opposed to Lower Moldavia which is mainly a plain and a steppe. A large part of Lower Moldavia is now The Republic of Moldavia, former Soviet Republic of Moldavia) and in Ukraine too (Ukraine include a large part of Bukowina). Very interesting is the fact that one of the areas inhabited by Hutsuls consists of 7 villages (now 8, one of those villages is new) in a remote mountain valley, exactly like in the text you posted. They are renown for their specific breed of mountain horses.
About the picture you posted, you can see in the Hutsuls page on Wikipedia a picture with a horseman that has striking similarities with one of those in your picture but the Hutsuls don't wear their hair in braided tails like the one leading the smugglers group in your picture. This custom is specific to hungarians and transylvanian romanians in the mountain regions in south-western and western Transylvania.
About the fact that that smuggler served in Austrian army, there were three border regiments formed from romanians and one regiment formed with hutsuls in the austrian army. They were asigned especially to guard the mountain borders and they were expert skirmishers trained in guerrilla-like tactics, best training for a smuggler ...
About the axes, I don't really think that they are from Transylvania (they look more like indo-persian/turkish axes), I just pointed out that the decoration pattern is similar, but I don't exclude the posibility that they could be, because there was a huge turkish influence on weapons and armor used by trasnylvanians, moldavians and wallachians from late XV century to early XIX century."

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Remember, Any 'lurker' who can help, please email me at:
gimmieitbaby@aol.com

I have already "lurked" but due to possible copyright have not "published" here. Perhaps a reference to the chapter on Axes in Elgoods Arms and Armour of Arabia might produce some comment......particularly the last section of that chapter, and the photo which appears there. I see that no one else has suggested an Arabian origin.
Stu

[Emanuel]

Nice investigative piece this thread

The bit about the Transylvanian smugglers is interesting.

Wish I could bring in some more points but I've got nothing except to restate the Ottoman influence.

A thought about these two axes... they look like they might have been produced by the same smith, perhaps in a series, hence their look like a "type". Romanian tools and weapons were far more fluid though. The Polish ciupaga is a much more rigid and formalized, but there aren't any real Romanian "types" for any kind of sword or tool that I know of, as the area was heavily influenced by the Ottomans, Slavs, Hungarians and Saxons.

The original handles might have helped as wood carving can be very distinct.

Keep up the search :Thumbs up:
Emanuel

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Nice investigative piece this thread

The bit about the Transylvanian smugglers is interesting.

Wish I could bring in some more points but I've got nothing except to restate the Ottoman influence.

A thought about these two axes... they look like they might have been produced by the same smith, perhaps in a series, hence their look like a "type". Romanian tools and weapons were far more fluid though. The Polish ciupaga is a much more rigid and formalized, but there aren't any real Romanian "types" for any kind of sword or tool that I know of, as the area was heavily influenced by the Ottomans, Slavs, Hungarians and Saxons.

The original handles might have helped as wood carving can be very distinct.

Keep up the search :Thumbs up:
Emanuel

I still generally feel that the shafts would have been long. Based on the shape and size of the axe.
I may just go ahead and make new ones anyway. Perhaps it'll help with the 'struggle' to pin their origin down!
Well, if I can find a bloody spokeshave (nowhere in the town I work in had one today)

Thanks for your help

Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I have already "lurked" but due to possible copyright have not "published" here. Perhaps a reference to the chapter on Axes in Elgoods Arms and Armour of Arabia might produce some comment......particularly the last section of that chapter, and the photo which appears there. I see that no one else has suggested an Arabian origin.
Stu

Hi Stu,
thats it, you've got to expand and elaborate on your theory now

Best
Gene

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Stu,
thats it, you've got to expand and elaborate on your theory now

Best
Gene

Thanks Gene,
All I can do is refer to Elgood Arms and Armour of Arabia,and the comments relating to the Hadhramaut axe of which a pic appears on page 36. He describes this axe as unique to Habban in the Wahidi Sultanate of western Hadhramaut. This axe, he says, has design features including cross hatching and dots.
Allowing for the fact that these were most likely locally cast, the shape therefore would also vary slightly. The pic in Elgood shows definate resemblance to the axes Gene has.
Stu