my Albacete Dagger

[fernando]

Jim, skip the name game for now. In Albacete they made all kinds of knives, even sissors, for centuries. But we all know that the version which practically always comes around, like Wayne's example, is the one with a spindle shaped hilt, just like shown in page 158 of RDC EVANS work, as you mention. And is also the one that beginners and ignorant or fraudulent dealers sell as plug bayonets.

If Wayne doesn't mind, a couple pictures of some Albacete variaties.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Jim, skip the name game for now. In Albacete they made all kinds of knives, even sissors, for centuries. But we all know that the version which practically always comes around, like Wayne's example, is the one with a spindle shaped hilt, just like shown in page 158 of RDC EVANS work, as you mention. And is also the one that beginners and ignorant or fraudulent dealers sell as plug bayonets.

If Wayne doesn't mind, a couple pictures of some Albacete variaties.


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It was not just Albacete, there were many locations which made the 'plug bayonet' form of daggers, which as noted were used as hunting knives well through the 19th c. As with Albacete, there were variations among most, but the plug bayonet style hilt largely prevailed in a traditional sense.
While the term may have been inaccurate, as obviously their original purpose inserted in gun barrels was no longer viable, and the image vestigial, it was the term that aligned these with plug bayonets, which was why I added 'of plug bayonet FORM'.

[kronckew]

Well, it arrived a few minutes ago. It's solid, nothing missing, a bit of red rust, a few small pits. 4 inch grip, 7.25 in. blade, fairly sharp, scrubbed off the red rust & oiled it. Will look for a scabbard to store it in, hopefully like the ones shown above.


I've read somewhere that the early plug bayonets were just daggers with cylindrical non-tapered grips sized to fit your musket's bore, so they would fit nicely without wobbling like the tapered grip ones we call 'plug bayonets'.


Last night I saw a firearms video where a man fired a musket, then drew and inserted his plug bayonet to counter a charge from 15 yards by an opponent. or at least tried, the opponent reached him before he could get it in the muzzle. The socket bayonet was developed fairly quickly after to enable firing with the bayonet attached. They also did a VR simulation of a WW1 trench where the real human was confronted by a charging German with just a rifle and then with one with his bayonet attached. They measured stress and fright levels. seems, like the Brits always believed, the bayonet charge scared more and broke the enemy more than just firing muskets.


I've read about a Sultan from one of the independent states in SEA that had a few hundred armed rebels attacking his capital. He called out his Gurkha bodyguard with their rifles. The rebels kept attacking. The Gurkhas were ordered to draw Khukuris, as they closed, the rebels reconsidered and ran away. End of rebellion. People will charge gun, but fear edged weapons, even tho you are more likel;y to survive a bayonet (or khukuri) than a bullet.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... I've read somewhere that the early plug bayonets were just daggers with cylindrical non-tapered grips sized to fit your musket's bore, so they would fit nicely without wobbling like the tapered grip ones we call 'plug bayonets'...

Those had to be the exact size of the barrel bore. One serious issue is that they eventually got stuck and hard to dismount.
I guess the real wobbling hardly occurred with 'current' plug bayonets, assuming the wooden grip has a slowly progressive taper ending with the usual 'bulb'.
Speaking of which, wobling is the reason why the Albacete dagger like yours can not be confused with a plug bayonet. But of course you now that; yet some don't.


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[kronckew]

Fernando: exactly! Nice drawing!

[fernando]

... And how plug bayonets did their job at mounting on end XVIII and beg. XIX century Spanish hunting muskets.


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[David R]

Well, seeing as we have a nice thread going here I will add in my example. No blade piercing, and the grip panelled with brass and "ivory" glued with pitch or resin to the wooden core. Some damage to the grip panels but mainly sound.
The scabbard looks to be very thin wood strips, possibly card, covered in cotton velvet and very thin brass mounts.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It was not just Albacete, there were many locations which made the 'plug bayonet' form of daggers...

Of course Jim; only that what we are discussing is the Albacete cuttlery.