A koummya- and contexts

[Changdao]

Originally Posted by Pertinax

Camille Lacoste in her work " Sabres Kabyles" has conscientiously collected everything she could about the Kabyles and the fleece.

The main source of information is the book by Edouard Lapene «Vingt-six mois à Bougie», which he wrote in 1839, just nine years after the French landed in Sidi Fredj (Sidi Ferruch) in 1830.

Edouard Lapine, lieutenant colonel of artillery, a direct participant in the conquest and occupation of the Kabyle port city of Bejaia (French: Bougie), was the head of the garrison in Bougie from August 4, 1836.

So, everything revolves around the memoirs of Lapene.

And so we have (I apologize in advance for possible inaccuracies in the translation).

Application.

Lapene writes:
- This weapon... is very dangerous for thrusting", he adds:
- The Kabyles rarely use it for cutting, except when they want to cut off a head. In this case, they apply the retractor part from above and strongly pull the hand back while sawing.

C. Lacoste rightly notes:
- It is difficult to imagine how this double movement could be quickly performed in the heat of battle, either this use was intended for capital punishment, or the action was carried out by cunning, when the victim did not think or could not parry the blow.

I will add on my own behalf that in order to cut off the enemy's head, he must first be defeated in combat.

Further in various places Lapene writes:
- Both sides, however, sometimes approach each other with bladed weapons and advance on their enemy, with a rifle in one hand, a yataghan in the other, making the latter a very fast windmill and uttering loud cries.

- They also use the yataghan, a weapon very dangerous because of its shape and the sharp blows they deliver with it.

- Having risen very close, the Kabaile horsemen fire their rifles and take up the yataghan. This movement is done very quickly, their gun strap is very long and hangs below the weapon, after firing they throw the gun back, and can immediately draw their yataghan.

- In the attacks of November 7 and 8, 1835, yataghans crossed with our sabres and, despite the numerical superiority, we beat off the enemy and repelled his blow.

And that's basically it! There is no detailed description of the battle itself. In fact, it seems that this was almost the only face-to-face skirmish. The French had the advantage in weapons, these are more modern and rapid-fire guns, cannons with grapeshot and they hit the Kabyles from a distance, without engaging in hand-to-hand combat.

Personally, I have doubts that the fleece was mainly used only for stabbing. According to his testimony, the infantrymen "turned the mill" with the fleece. This is very similar to the technique of wielding a saber among the Cossacks and the peoples of the Caucasus, but after such manipulations a saber blow is delivered.

K. Lacoste gives an explanation for the "little knowledge" of the fleece:
- How could it happen that such an original weapon could be so ignored?

Before the French conquest, almost no one penetrated Kabylia from the outside. The conquerors founded several colonial outposts there, and only in exceptional cases dared to penetrate into the interior of the country.

Therefore, they knew nothing about the Kabyle people and things. Travelers avoided the region, whose inhabitants had a bad reputation.

Subsequently, they had to wait for the French conquest, which, having penetrated into the interior, discovered and made known the fleece. This is confirmed by Nicolas Bibesco " Kabyles du Djurdjura ":

- Elsewhere we have already said: that the Kabyles do not have national chronicles, when we want to study their history in ancient times, we have no other sources except little-known or partial chronicles of their enemies.

On this basis, it cannot be asserted that the flissa appeared at the beginning of the 19th century, at which time it became known to Europeans.

Very interesting information! Thanks for sharing.

[Pertinax]

Marshal Randon, the pacifier of Kabylia. 1857. A. Verne symbolizes the conquest of Kabylia with a fleece and a yataghan

[RobT]

Hi All,

There are three koummya shown in this thread that have hilts made of a material other than wood.
Jim McDougall’s example, made of camel bone, has very slight quillons made of metal. I can’t see whether or not there are slight projections of bone on the sides of the hilt under the metal.
Pertinax shows another bone hilt with metal quillons. Again, it is impossible to see what is under the metal clearly. Could it be a separate piece of bone laid crossways to the hilt to fill in the area below the metal?
Marc M. shows a hilt that appears to be ivory. The hilt has two tiny quillon stubs
Could it be that the lack of quillons is caused by not having enough hilt material to make them? Since all three examples appear to be from the 20th century, it is very likely that their appearance rather than functional capability was the important consideration.

Pertinax,
Thanks for the link to Armes Anciennes du Maroc. I downloaded the PDF and will try to get a translation. I can puzzle out a little bit of French and it seems that the author makes a clear distinction between what he calls khanjar and what he calls koummya. Since the khanjar vs koummya designation has been a subject of debate on this forum, I hope that a translation of the French will shed some more light on the matter.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Jim McDougall]

Rob good thought!
There is slight projection of bone under metal, so it seems the bone was carved out and the metal covered.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

Pertinax,
Thanks for the link to Armes Anciennes du Maroc. I downloaded the PDF and will try to get a translation. I can puzzle out a little bit of French and it seems that the author makes a clear distinction between what he calls khanjar and what he calls koummya. Since the khanjar vs koummya designation has been a subject of debate on this forum, I hope that a translation of the French will shed some more light on the matter.

Sincerely,
RobT

Hi RobT!

I convert PDF documents to Word using ABBYY Fine Reader 15, and then translate the text. It doesn't turn out quite right, but then I make corrections.

Best regards,
Yuri

[Justin]

I'm pretty late on this thread and not nearly as knowledgeable as most here but for what it's worth I love these knives. I seem to remember some considering many even early well made one's as early tourist pieces. I've always thought jambiyas in general,kerises and several other knives were typically more of a form of male jewelry than real dedicated weapons. Nevertheless, I like em.

[David R]

I may have posted this one before, but here we are anyway. A very thick and well formed blade of soft temper, and heavily patinated (oxidised) to the point I see no benefit in striking it off. Well worn in the hilt with wire inlay..... made when they were worn with intent methinks.

[Pertinax]

[QUOTE=RobT;296795]Hi All,

There are three koummya shown in this thread that have hilts made of a material other than wood.
Jim McDougall’s example, made of camel bone, has very slight quillons made of metal. I can’t see whether or not there are slight projections of bone on the sides of the hilt under the metal.
Pertinax shows another bone hilt with metal quillons. Again, it is impossible to see what is under the metal clearly. Could it be a separate piece of bone laid crossways to the hilt to fill in the area below the metal?

Here is another kummiya with bone inserts

[Pertinax]

Finally found a decent cummiya.

A prestigious item, a good forged blade, ivory (not banned in my country), silver, and gold plated.

I welcome your comments.

[Sajen]

Hi Yuri,

A most beautiful koummya, congrats! Are you sure that the handle is from ivory? Is there something missing at the handle?

Regards,
Detlef

[corrado26]

In response to post #35 I dare to show you two of fife Koummiyas of my collection. Their dimensions are total length 450mm, blade length 230 mm, width of blades 23 mm and weight ca. 1000 g each.

These Koummyas come from the collection of the former, world-famous tennis champion Baron Gottfried von Cramm, born in 1909, who lived in Wispenstein Castle near Alfeld. In 1951, von Cramm founded a transport company for the cotton trade in Egypt. In the same year he married the then richest woman in the world, Barbara Hutton, as his fifth husband.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Yuri,

A most beautiful koummya, congrats! Are you sure that the handle is from ivory? Is there something missing at the handle?

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef, thank you!

I might be wrong about the ivory, but if it's sperm whale or walrus tusk, which was very rare in the Middle East and Morocco, the item's value increases significantly. And ivory was transported from Africa to ports in the Maghreb for several centuries.

Yes, there was probably something on the handle, but how can we tell now? Although, note, it's the inside of the dagger.

I have a sperm whale tooth; I could make dagger handles.

Sincerely,
Yuri