A hunting knife for comments

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Interesting that these were regarded as 'fragile' but these primarily infantry swords were actually never thought of as particularly 'combat' oriented...

Jim, do you mean to say that infantry swords were not meant for combat, or this pattern in particular ?
Call it a flaw from the abovementioned book author but, in fact, Queen Dona Maria II reigned twice, the first period between 1826-1828, ended by an uprise followed by a Civil War, that lasted until 1834.
This would give place for a 1822 (pipe-back) sword hilted with this Queen cartouche to be present in such episodes and break in combat; or as well be broken for another zillion reasons.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Jim, do you mean to say that infantry swords were not meant for combat, or this pattern in particular ?
Call it a flaw from the abovementioned book author but, in fact, Queen Dona Maria II reigned twice, the first period between 1826-1828, ended by an uprise followed by a Civil War, that lasted until 1834.
This would give place for a 1822 (pipe-back) sword hilted with this Queen cartouche to be present in such episodes and break in combat; or as well be broken for another zillion reasons.

No, what I meant was that infantry did not really carry swords after 1780s (British), but these were officers swords. These were typically regarded as secondary of course, and to direct etc. Officers were not expected to participate in combat, but there were of course exceptions.

I dont think this adaption was from a blade broken in combat or that sort of situation, but swords in those days were not especially regarded as practical.
However , the blades were valued, and of course cut down for use in knife form.
The sword was essentially obsolete in the 19th c in the US, which was the reason for extra large Bowies, and the espada anchas in Mexico. While swords were still worn, actual use was incidental.

Turning to Scotland, after Culloden (1746) swords were prohibited....however, dirks were considered utility and OK to use for hunting etc...........which is what happened to many of the famed Highland basket hilts. It was not from being broken in combat.

As noted, this distinctive type 'round back' blade was not especially common, but known in early British sabers (not just infantry) until about 1840s..they were seen on German sabers c. 1870s-80s, and these swords were used into WWI period.

The blade here seems from the upper section of the blade, reprofiled tip. I cannot think of any bayonet with ramrod back blade, and would welcome any information on such types.

[fernando]

Thank you Jim, for sharing all that knowledge.
I will follow your assumption on the " but there were of course exceptions " part.
Whether 'my' author mentioning could be a fantasy, i find more than one source admitting that the pipe-back sword was fragile indeed.

"As a fighting weapon, the 1822 Pattern was rather unsatisfactory, the blade being far too weak and the hilt bars affording little protection".

https://www.militariahub.com/british...officer-sword/

Besides the fragility issue, this could mean (these) infantry swords were still "serviceable" .

[fernando]

I would like to say that i found the support text of this item when it was last included in an auction.
"Spanish, with a repurposed sword blade".
Judging by the fact that also the Spanish had their version of the 1822 pipe-back, it all makes sense ... i would say.


.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

I would like to say that i found the support text of this item when it was last included in an auction.
"Spanish, with a repurposed sword blade".
Judging by the fact that also the Spanish had their version of the 1822 pipe-back, it all makes sense ... i would say.


.

as they say here in Texas, "..well....there ya go!"

[fernando]

All's well that ends well .