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Old 4th January 2012, 06:23 PM   #1
hbhansen
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Default ID on dagger ?

Hi again.

I have had this one for some time, but actually don't know what kind of a dagger it is, where it's from and how old it is...
The structure of the blade is quite interresting, but I can't see if it's laminated.
Anyone know the stamps ?
Is the handle bone or ivory ?

Thanks
Henrik
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Old 8th January 2012, 04:40 PM   #2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbhansen
Hi again.

I have had this one for some time, but actually don't know what kind of a dagger it is, where it's from and how old it is...
The structure of the blade is quite interresting, but I can't see if it's laminated.
Anyone know the stamps ?
Is the handle bone or ivory ?

Thanks
Henrik



Salaams Henrik,
This looks like a Scandanavian hunting knife... possibly Finland "Puuko." Maybe ivory tusk from Walrus or possibly Reindeer Antler?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 8th January 2012, 05:12 PM   #3
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The blade shows no sign of being laminated. It has visible traces of the forging process, as the steel as been almost not grinded on the "rear" side of the blade.
The handle seems to be ivory. Would it be possible to see a photo of the rear part of the handle ? (the inside material of some tusks have a very characteristic aspect).
Regards,
Bernard
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Old 8th January 2012, 06:10 PM   #4
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hello together
me too interested with this question, whence comes this knife.
The images come from my piece, had bought it years ago, the dealer did not know where it came from.
short time before had seen a similar piece at an antique market, the pieces all look exactly alike!
The handle is ivory, very fine grain, whether walrus can not be determined. I know the difference!
Scabbard is brown thick leather, covered with a thin skin. I binn not sure sealskin?
Gruss Chregu
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Last edited by Lew : 9th January 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 8th January 2012, 07:21 PM   #5
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African gets my vote, I have seen this confirmed but I can't recall...Algeria?

Gav
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Old 8th January 2012, 08:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chregu
Scabbard is brown thick leather, covered with a thin skin.



I don't mean to derail but I am somewhat disturbed by the above sentence... Perhaps something was lost in translation?

Last edited by Lew : 9th January 2012 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 8th January 2012, 08:34 PM   #7
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Stan, that's a literal translation from German for scabbard, it's happened to me as well using Google translate.
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Old 8th January 2012, 10:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan S.
I don't mean to derail but I am somewhat disturbed by the above sentence... Perhaps something was lost in translation?


It recalls a certain faulty phrasebook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYH0pBZdaes

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Old 8th January 2012, 11:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebooter
Algeria?
Hi Gav
forget Algeria, from near or far ... no chance
and, I dunno from where it's come from ...

ŕ +

Dom
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Old 8th January 2012, 11:31 PM   #10
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Old 9th January 2012, 02:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Hi Gav
forget Algeria, from near or far ... no chance
and, I dunno from where it's come from ...

ŕ +

Dom


Yes but why
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Old 9th January 2012, 04:02 AM   #12
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An absolutely baseless opinion, but i would look north of Africa.
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Old 9th January 2012, 06:57 AM   #13
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I would say the shape of the blade and the style of the leather sheath and its loop are not "native-African". (I think if it was originated in Africa, then only as a relatively modern hunter´s accessories.)
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Old 9th January 2012, 07:06 AM   #14
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hello guys
Yes, please grant me a translation program. Smile.
sorry did not notice the error.
Of course, the sheath is meant. smile
not African, my assessment would be more North Asia? The design reminds me of a Dha, how about China?
In any case I've seen too many of the same Knife, to declare it as individual pieces. they are always exactly the same design, also the knife sheaths!
Gruss Chregu
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Old 9th January 2012, 09:09 AM   #15
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I would also guess north Asia, What about some of the nations from the north Siberia ?
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Old 9th January 2012, 09:18 AM   #16
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Not limited to but;

Similar bolsters have been seen on Khodmi
The hilt is Elephant ivory
Similar markings on the ivory have also been seen on Khodmi
Similar method of seating the blade in the hilt has been seen on Khodmi despite having no binding.

Yes similar overall profile and circle markings have been seen on SEA knives too but they are not seen with hide coverings, usually better finished blades and timber sheaths bound with rattan or silver. Also they usually have collars, not bolsters.

Artzi has a couple of these attributed to several different regions, Afghanistan, Northwest India, and Pakistan...perhaps AJ or Lofty can chime in for this regions?

The closest I have owned to one was a mid 20th century Turkish hunting knife. The blade on it was named and the hilt was antler but similar blade and method of securing in the antler albeit longer rivet spacing....Turkey and North Africa have had a lot of interaction...could have been a contract fulfilled there much like some cutlers do in Pakistan these days...

Gav
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Last edited by freebooter : 9th January 2012 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 9th January 2012, 12:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
I would also guess north Asia, What about some of the nations from the north Siberia ?


No, not likely. First, the use of elephant ivory, and second, Siberian tribal knives are orders of magnitude simpler and have no sophisticated designs on the blade.
I am still voting for North India and thereabouts.
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Old 9th January 2012, 12:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
No, not likely. First, the use of elephant ivory, and second, Siberian tribal knives are orders of magnitude simpler and have no sophisticated designs on the blade.
I am still voting for North India and thereabouts.


The red and blacks are seen on Lohar along with the same symbols but then the symbols as discussed in these pages long ago are found in almost every region of the world....
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Old 9th January 2012, 01:06 PM   #19
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the decoration on the handle, I do not come on. but which is on the blade is special.
the style it is a good working knife, but the attachment is unusual with the short part in the handle.
In the country of origin is no shortage of ivory.
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Old 9th January 2012, 05:57 PM   #20
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Thank you guys !! For all your answers !
Looks like this is a tuff nut to crack But you have all given me some good input, that i can use in my search of the origin of this knife.
Best
Henrik
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Old 9th January 2012, 06:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chregu
hello together
me too interested with this question, whence comes this knife.
The images come from my piece, had bought it years ago, the dealer did not know where it came from.
short time before had seen a similar piece at an antique market, the pieces all look exactly alike!
The handle is ivory, very fine grain, whether walrus can not be determined. I know the difference!
Scabbard is brown thick leather, covered with a thin skin. I binn not sure sealskin?
Gruss Chregu


That's very interesting ! Theres no doubt in my mind, that these knifes is from the same region. Just a shame that the origin of the knife is lost
Nice knife, thanks for showing.
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Old 9th January 2012, 06:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delor
The blade shows no sign of being laminated. It has visible traces of the forging process, as the steel as been almost not grinded on the "rear" side of the blade.
The handle seems to be ivory. Would it be possible to see a photo of the rear part of the handle ? (the inside material of some tusks have a very characteristic aspect).
Regards,
Bernard


Hi Bernard
Here are some additional pictures, hope they are useful.
Best
Henrik
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Old 9th January 2012, 06:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chregu
hello together
me too interested with this question, whence comes this knife.
The images come from my piece, had bought it years ago, the dealer did not know where it came from.
short time before had seen a similar piece at an antique market, the pieces all look exactly alike!
The handle is ivory, very fine grain, whether walrus can not be determined. I know the difference!
Scabbard is brown thick leather, covered with a thin skin. I binn not sure sealskin?
Gruss Chregu


Hi Chregu
Does the size match ?
Best
Henrik
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Old 9th January 2012, 11:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebooter
Yes but why
Hi my Friend
BECAUSE ....
my belief was acquired by the ability to review, 7 reference books,
dealing primarily Islamic edged weapons, books that are at home

however, the error is always possible,
that is why we must be cautious in our statements, at least in my case

my personal library concerning this subject
1) Arms & Armor (in English)
2) L'Art des Chevaliers en Pays d'Islam (in French)
3) Swords & Armor (in English)
4) les armes orientales (in French)
5) ABC des armes blanches (Islam) (in French)
6) les armes orientales (in French)
7) armes et armures (in French)

on top of all that, I spent 6 years in Algeria,
I ran Tunisia, as well as Morocco, and I never saw something like this dagger
the quality of the handle, of the scabbard, it's far better than what it's produced in Africa, and the decor (small circles) it's away of what is made in North Africa

HAVE I WELL ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR? Have I convinced ?

ŕ +

Dom
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Old 10th January 2012, 12:16 AM   #25
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Hello,

We've discussed one of these before, along with a ram-dao like little chopper belonging to Tim:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthrea...21&page=2&pp=40
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost....27&postcount=42

The bolster and partial tang say Nepal to me. I would also vote for North Indian.

Regards,
Emanuel
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Old 10th January 2012, 01:20 AM   #26
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Here is a little more food for thought.....

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthrea...ht=circle+motif

Not yet convinced of anything...still have not heard a fat lady singing

Gav
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Old 10th January 2012, 06:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbhansen
Hi Bernard
Here are some additional pictures, hope they are useful.
Best
Henrik


Thanks Henrik,
it confirms the handle is not walrus ivory. Probably elephant ivory as already stated.
The marks on ivory look Afghan or Balkan to me.
Regards,
Bernard
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Old 10th January 2012, 06:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel
Hello,

We've discussed one of these before, along with a ram-dao like little chopper belonging to Tim:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthrea...21&page=2&pp=40
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost....27&postcount=42

The bolster and partial tang say Nepal to me. I would also vote for North Indian.

Regards,
Emanuel


Definitely from the same region !!
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Old 10th January 2012, 06:16 PM   #29
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Thank you all for your answers. I read the links to the earlier threads an see alot of similarity. I've got a lot to work with now.
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Old 11th January 2012, 03:58 PM   #30
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Thanks to everyone for their answers.
here the length of my knife
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