Keris Terengganu

[David]

Greetings Laowang, welcome to the forum. I like your keris and do see th similarities.

[PenangsangII]

greetings.....

In a patriachal system such as Trengganu, I doubt this is a patrem... keris for a boy is the strongest possibility....

[BluErf]

I have two small terengganu kerises. They function as dress kerises, so that you don't have a huge batang sticking out of your kain samping, especially when you sit down. Ok fellow Malay forumnites and Malay speakers don't get the wrong idea ok...

[BluErf]

To Laowang - you need to change the mendak into a proper pendoko.

[Laowang]

Thanks for the explanation, Kai Wee. Makes sense. Although, in my part of the world, one might choose to bring the larger keris, so that everyone knows you have a huge, ahem, 'batang'.

Yes, the mendak is finely made but inappropriate. I've been meaning to e-mail Adni for a replacement. Any suggestions about other sources for a proper pendoko would be welcome.

Does anyone know the name of this pamor?

By the way, my given name is Keoni, if you prefer to address me by it. Since I know many of yours after a few years of reading posts on this forum...

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Laowang

.. Yes, the mendak is finely made but inappropriate. I've been meaning to e-mail Adni for a replacement. Any suggestions about other sources for a proper pendoko would be welcome.

Does anyone know the name of this pamor?

By the way, my given name is Keoni, if you prefer to address me by it. Since I know many of yours after a few years of reading posts on this forum...

Hi Keoni,

Congratulation! A nice keris indeed.. I agree that the hilt ring, is less appropriate. The flat bugis brass pendokok, would be simple and matching to this piece.. The pamor is known as 'katang tebu' (in malay).. meaning, sections of sugarcane.. with pamor 'gunungan' at the base.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by BluErf

I have two small terengganu kerises. They function as dress kerises, so that you don't have a huge batang sticking out of your kain samping, especially when you sit down. Ok fellow Malay forumnites and Malay speakers don't get the wrong idea ok...

By the way, Kai Wee, would you please enlighten me -- what is the significant difference between "terengganu keris" and "bugis keris"? I apologize for being too confused -- especially when you mention that the first picture is a terengganu keris...

GANJAWULUNG

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

By the way, Kai Wee, would you please enlighten me -- what is the significant difference between "terengganu keris" and "bugis keris"? I apologize for being too confused -- especially when you mention that the first picture is a terengganu keris...

As i understand it Ganja, Bugis keris are found in many parts of the Indonesian archipelago as the seafaring Bugis tended to move around alot. But in the various places that they settled their keris can be seen to take on specific characteristics for that specific place. A Terengganu keris can therefore be a Bugis keris in style if it were made by and for Bugis people living in that area. But certainly not all Bugis keris are Teregganu. I think you might find greater differences in the dress than the actual blades, though forging materials may well vary from place to place.
Kai Wee could certainly point out the subtle differences in the various Bugis forms than i ever could.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by David

A Terengganu keris can therefore be a Bugis keris in style if it were made by and for Bugis people living in that area. But certainly not all Bugis keris are Teregganu. I think you might find greater differences in the dress than the actual blades, though forging materials may well vary from place to place.
Kai Wee could certainly point out the subtle differences in the various Bugis forms than i ever could.

Thanks, David for the response. Sometimes, it is confusing to me. When I find a "bugis" keris, but dressed in "palembang" style for instance, can I mention it "a palembang keris"? Or "a bugis keris but in Palembang dress"? So, which must we classify geographically the keris? From dress, or blade?

What I want to make sure from the picture, was the blade made in terengganu by terengganu empu, or just dressed in terengganu style but the blade was actually made in Bugis? What are spesific characteristics of terengganu blade?

It is the same question I will ask myself. If I have a "sundang" -- whether it is Moro or Malay -- but dressed in Javanese style. Then, may I call it "a javanese sundang"?

In other ways, sometimes I find "bugis form keris" but sheated in Palembang way -- then may I called it is a "palembang keris", or "bugis blade dressed in palembang style"?

Once again, I apologize for being confused...

GANJAWULUNG

[Gustav]

A great thread for reading (regarding this "ever green" discussion about the blade and dress): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=terengganu

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Thanks, David for the response. Sometimes, it is confusing to me. When I find a "bugis" keris, but dressed in "palembang" style for instance, can I mention it "a palembang keris"? Or "a bugis keris but in Palembang dress"? So, which must we classify geographically the keris? From dress, or blade?

What I want to make sure from the picture, was the blade made in terengganu by terengganu empu, or just dressed in terengganu style but the blade was actually made in Bugis? What are spesific characteristics of terengganu blade?

It is the same question I will ask myself. If I have a "sundang" -- whether it is Moro or Malay -- but dressed in Javanese style. Then, may I call it "a javanese sundang"?

In other ways, sometimes I find "bugis form keris" but sheated in Palembang way -- then may I called it is a "palembang keris", or "bugis blade dressed in palembang style"?

Once again, I apologize for being confused...

This is indeed an endless question and is, of course, dependent upon specific examples.
AFAIK it is indeed proper to refer to a keris as being, let's say, a Palembang keris if it is properly dressed as such regardless of it's blades origin. Blades often travel, either in trade or because their owner has moved. To dress your blade as is appropriate for the region in which you are living would make a lot of sense. Of course, here we are just speaking about when this type of dressing is done for cultural purpose. These days it is not uncommon to find all sorts of blade origins dressed all sorts of ways at the whim of dealers who are merely redressing old blades for the purpose of sales. Sometimes it's a tough or impossible call. Is it properly dressed this way or is a a "dealer mixed bag special"?
Personally i would not call a Moro kris in a Javanese sheath a Javanese Sundang, but maybe others will think differently.
But when we are discussing Bugis keris it seems to me that we have other factors to keep in mind. You probably wouldn't find too many Javanese style keris being made on the Peninsula, but since Bugis communities pop up all over the archipelago you may well find someone was making Bugis style keris there at some time. I would also be interesting in knowing whether or not we can detect subtle character differences in a Bugis blade made in Sulawesi to that of one made in Teregganu.