hilt material ?

[David]

I think we are have just a wee bit of language difficulties here. Let me try to me clearer.
Jan, people are responding to your early post because you clearly stated "nice hilt, but no ivory".
Now you have clarified that statement by saying it is not from an elephant, but from some other animal. Perhaps you are unaware that ivory comes from many different kinds of animals. If you read the posts on this you will see that no one else here thinks it is elephant either. The consensus seems to be leaning towards marine ivory, meaning from some sea-bound mammal. It could be dunong (sea cow), it could be from a whale. But all these animals produce material that is know as ivory. Danny's hilt if clearly made from one of these ivories. Right now the only question in my mind if which one and i am not convinced we will come to any definite conclusion on that.

[danny1976]

David ,

Thanks you for trying to explain it to vampire.

I don,t think there is a problem with the language , english is not my mother language also but i can follow quite clear what everybody write,s and i hope you people can understand my writing although it is not perfect english.

The problem with jan is a think just a stubern ''i know better mentality''


Jan i will play the 'rough unpolited '' dutch man back to you maybe you can understand this way bettter?

Stop with omong kossong i realy get a kepala sakit after reading your coments !

[Rick]

Interesting Danny,
Did you say something about Bull waste and a splitting headache ?

[simatua]

Let's go back to the beginning.

looking at the pictures i asked myself is it really ivory?/ is it an old hilt?
- The kind of carving is indeed not to sharp. ( even in the early days ivory was scarce, carvers low paid, and have more time to make little masterpieces.
.....especially for someone with royal connections, looking at the symbol of the son.
imo its not patine / or worn off, looking at the front; the triangles are different size. Ivory is an hard material is does not quicly show patine, and if so the inside stays like it is.

The hot needle is just an test, and not every new material melts away.

, I cannot lay my finger behind this...what exactly the material is, but i would not say its ivory. I some hilts myself.
1. Onknown material molded?; even stands the hot knive test. ( at the backside some airholes?

2. Old ivory, with patine

[David]

Originally Posted by simatua

Let's go back to the beginning.

looking at the pictures i asked myself is it really ivory?/ is it an old hilt?
- The kind of carving is indeed not to sharp. ( even in the early days ivory was scarce, carvers low paid, and have more time to make little masterpieces.
.....especially for someone with royal connections, looking at the symbol of the son.
imo its not patine / or worn off, looking at the front; the triangles are different size. Ivory is an hard material is does not quicly show patine, and if so the inside stays like it is.

The hot needle is just an test, and not every new material melts away.

You know, the hilt is not in my hands so i guess anything is really possible, but we really have seen quite a lot of ivory hilts on this forum. This first hilt, IMO, shows all the signs of being real ivory. If they are making molds that look like this i would be sincerely impressed.
The first example you show Simatau clearly is a composite material and that shows itself very clearly as an unnatural material. Danny's hilt looks nothing like this material though.
As for age, i am less inclined to form an opinion. While ivory does not patina quickly there are many methods available to create patina and color. I am willing to except that it is possible that this is not an old hilt, that the age might have been artificially added, but the material sure looks like ivory to me regardless of the actual age. You experts might know better.

[Sajen]

Hi Danny,

here the pictures from my wooden hilt.

To Simatua: Like I write before, it's just not possible to be sure by pictures but I see grain, I see cracks at Danny's hilt so it would be a masterwork of molding when it is not some sort of ivory.

Regards,

Detlef

[danny1976]

Simatua ,

Thanks for youre input .

Personaly i think the hilt is ivory , what kind ? no idea .
I had some time,s molded hilts in my hands and the look realy different and also feel difrent (weight) but i think they can find away in indonesia to give a molded hilt a good weight.

About the hot needle test ... when i did it i realy let the needle become red and when pushd against the hilt there is verry verry short a little smell what looks the most to uhhhh burned hair , not the same but that,s the smell that will the most close tho what i can discribe.

I don,t know where you live in holland ? if its close maybe i can pass by so you can have a look and tell me youre opinion , so i can learn again a little more.

regards,

danny

[danny1976]

Hi Detlef,

Nice hilt ! Thanks for posting.

The same kind of sun , i didn,t know what it ment .


regards,

danny

[spiral]

Originally Posted by danny1976

About the hot needle test ... when i did it i realy let the needle become red and when pushd against the hilt there is verry verry short a little smell what looks the most to uhhhh burned hair , not the same but that,s the smell that will the most close tho what i can discribe.

Fascinating thread, I was wondering about Whale ivory or boxwood even but neither seems quite right to my eye and while personaly I dont realy like the hot needle test, the smell of burning hair one usualy finds with animal horn like cow,goat, buffalo etc. Occasionly when worked it smells like an old cattle shed.

When worked Tooth Ivory whether elephant or marine smells of drilled or ground teeth just like a filling at the dentist.

Spiral