hilt material ?

kulbuntet · 19th December 2009, 08:10 PM

Hi Danny,

Sure its marine ivory, most of madura ukiran are and it shows clouds so its marine. This one is from before 1825. Got it from Peter?

Regards Michel, amsterdam

David · 19th December 2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Sure its marine ivory, most of madura ukiran are and it shows clouds so its marine. This one is from before 1825.

Hi Michel. It would probably be helpful if you could explain exactly what characteristic of this hilt date it as being pre-1825?

vampire · 19th December 2009, 09:44 PM

hallo
danny
nice hilt ,but no ivory
what is nice to i have allmost the same hilt on a keris
given to me in indonesia in 1970
simlar but not the same ,mine one is bone
greet jan

David · 19th December 2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vampire

hallo
danny
nice hilt ,but no ivory
what is nice to i have allmost the same hilt on a keris
given to me in indonesia in 1970
simlar but not the same ,mine one is bone
greet jan

Jan, i am certainly no expert on ivory, but there are some really obvious differences between bone and ivory that even i can see in close-up photographs like these. The "growth ring" type structure that is evident in these photos most definitely identifies this hilt as ivory. Perhaps yours is indeed bone, or maybe it is ivory and you are just unaware. Post some close-ups and perhaps we will be able to help you identify it.

The question that is more difficult, at least for me, is what type of ivory is it. I also lean toward marine ivory.

danny1976 · 19th December 2009, 10:09 PM

Hi Michel,

Yes it,s from peter.

But pleas explain why you think its from before 1825 ?

And has some one a hilt with the same figure ? I do only know the ones
with the horse , crown , epaulets etc...

Danny

asomotif · 19th December 2009, 10:35 PM

The structure and color makes me think of a hilt I have.
See this old thread :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=raja+abala

Quote:

Sure its marine ivory

Ok, but which animal / define marine ivory ?
There are quite a lot of sea mamals that can provide teeth that are workable :
Sperm whale ? orca/killerwhale ? seacow/dujong ? Walrus ? Narwal ?

David · 19th December 2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Ok, but which animal / define marine ivory ?
There are quite a lot of sea mamals that can provise teeth that are workable :
Sperm whale ? orca/killerwhale ? seacow/dujong ? Walrus ? Narwal ?

Well Willem, you are certainly getting beyond my ability to differentiate.

danny1976 · 19th December 2009, 10:50 PM

Gentleman its getting a intrseting discusion.

I hope that we can figure it out what kind of animal did use this teeth to eat
before it did became a keris hilt .?

And also i.m realy curious how old it could be.

asomotif · 19th December 2009, 11:11 PM

There have been several threads where ID-ing ivory was discussed.

A recent one with info / links and examples was this one.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...identification

Quote:

Well Willem, you are certainly getting beyond my ability to differentiate.

Hello David, at this moment I am also just able to ask the questions, and not yet to answer them

kulbuntet · 2nd January 2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hi Michel. It would probably be helpful if you could explain exactly what characteristic of this hilt date it as being pre-1825?

Hi David,

At first Happy new year to all, hope it wilo be a good and healty yeah for all and their family and loved ones.

My opinion of this hilt being older than 1825 is because of that there are no indicators of the dutch. No epaulets, dutch knight ord or flying horse. 1825 is the year of start of Jawa war. Lot of soldiers that fought in this war on jawa were Dutch, but since the dutch needed more lot of Madura soldiers helped the dutch in this war. afther this date, madura hilt got dutch indicators.

Regards Michel

19th December 2009, 08:10 PM	#1
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Hi Danny, Sure its marine ivory, most of madura ukiran are and it shows clouds so its marine. This one is from before 1825. Got it from Peter? Regards Michel, amsterdam

19th December 2009, 09:44 PM	#3
vampire Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: amsterdam holland Posts: 28	hallo danny nice hilt ,but no ivory what is nice to i have allmost the same hilt on a keris given to me in indonesia in 1970 simlar but not the same ,mine one is bone greet jan

19th December 2009, 10:09 PM	#5
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Hi Michel, Yes it,s from peter. But pleas explain why you think its from before 1825 ? And has some one a hilt with the same figure ? I do only know the ones with the horse , crown , epaulets etc... Danny

19th December 2009, 10:50 PM	#8
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Gentleman its getting a intrseting discusion. I hope that we can figure it out what kind of animal did use this teeth to eat before it did became a keris hilt .? And also i.m realy curious how old it could be.