Women wielding swords/daggers/bows in the past

fearn · 29th December 2008, 05:26 PM

I'll take one of the easier ones first: Japan.

Yes, there were a few women warriors (onna bugeisha, or women trained in the use of weapons Tomoe Gozen was one), and samurai wives in general were expected to defend their households. That's one reason why in modern Japan and America, naginata-do is practiced more by girls and women than by men. Women also carried knives to commit suicide with. Supposedly there were female ninja, kunoichi, but I'm not sure how much about them is real, how much is fake, and whether they were assassins, spies, or some combination.

I'll also throw in an interesting weapon from Korea: the jang do (link to one at Pitt Rivers). These were small (~10 cm) knives carried by women (and men to a lesser extent) during the Choseon period. Jang do were so highly ornamented that they were also jewelry, worn a variety of ways. Symbolically, they were also given to young women before their weddings, to protect against rape, and also as a symbol that they were now independent from their parents and full adults.

My 0.002 cents,

F

katana · 29th December 2008, 05:44 PM

Hi Aleksey
welcome to the forum

Interesting question, heres a link to a previous thread which may interest you.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=amazons

Regards David

lemmythesmith · 29th December 2008, 08:33 PM

Hi Aleksey, women in Indonesia often carried a small keris known as a patrem for self defence.

A. G. Maisey · 29th December 2008, 09:15 PM

The patrem was probably not a defensive weapon, but rather a ceremonial one, which some women of rank were entitled to wear under certain circumstances.

In old Malaya, and some other localities in S.E. Asia, a very small variety of the lawi ayam or korambit was the usual women's weapon. Sometimes these could be carried in a fold of the clothing, and sometimes secreted in the konde (the bun of hair at the back of the neck).

In Central Jawa noble women would also sometimes carry a small, expensively ornamented dagger. Some years ago there used to be a display of these small daggers in the Mangkunegaraan musium in Solo. They were about 8 inches long, in the scabbard, handle of either agate or embossed metal, and scabbard of metal, in most cases this was gold or suasa---probably the reason they seem to have disappeared from display.

Thirty years ago in Malang in East Jawa I knew a woman who carried a cock's spur fitted into a small bambu grip. Indonesian fighting cock's spurs are effectively narrow, double edged daggers about three inches long.

In Jawa the pins that women used to hold their hair in place, the tusuk konde, also served as weapons, but this use was not unique to women in Jawa, my own grandmother once put a man who attacked her, into hospital, with a hat pin.

The pics are of a lawi ayam that was used in an attack on a man around 1920, probably in Singapore; it is 6" overall in the scabbard, and 5.5" out of the scabbard.

Bill M · 30th December 2008, 02:57 AM

Hi Aleks,

Well, you have seen what Anne has in her kitchen gallery! From Germany, to Papua New Guinea, with an emphasis in Africa, Philippines and Java. And an Arab Camel rifle....

Glad to see you posting here!!!

Gavin Nugent · 30th December 2008, 07:03 AM

Hi all,

A few more to think about.

Joan of Arc,
Boudicca, who just featured in a history channel documentary today in Australia.
Women were also gladiators in Rome.

Here is a great link with lots of other links to women warriors.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/libr.../aa032703a.htm

Gav

migueldiaz · 30th December 2008, 01:43 PM

Philippine Dagger 3 as well as Dagger 2 I believe, in Krieger's Plate No. 13 (below), are both women's blades:

"Plate 13. Hand weapons for cutting, piercing, and stabbing: Knives and daggers ... 2. Dagger "bala-rao"; hastate shape double-edged blade; handle provided with a peculiar finger-fitting grip consisting of extended tang and two horns; silver ferrule at center. Chief defense weapon of the Mandayan, southeastern Mindanao. 3. Woman's knife. Blade curved, designed for striking a slanting blow. Bagobo, southeastern Mindanao ..."

29th December 2008, 09:15 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	The patrem was probably not a defensive weapon, but rather a ceremonial one, which some women of rank were entitled to wear under certain circumstances. In old Malaya, and some other localities in S.E. Asia, a very small variety of the lawi ayam or korambit was the usual women's weapon. Sometimes these could be carried in a fold of the clothing, and sometimes secreted in the konde (the bun of hair at the back of the neck). In Central Jawa noble women would also sometimes carry a small, expensively ornamented dagger. Some years ago there used to be a display of these small daggers in the Mangkunegaraan musium in Solo. They were about 8 inches long, in the scabbard, handle of either agate or embossed metal, and scabbard of metal, in most cases this was gold or suasa---probably the reason they seem to have disappeared from display. Thirty years ago in Malang in East Jawa I knew a woman who carried a cock's spur fitted into a small bambu grip. Indonesian fighting cock's spurs are effectively narrow, double edged daggers about three inches long. In Jawa the pins that women used to hold their hair in place, the tusuk konde, also served as weapons, but this use was not unique to women in Jawa, my own grandmother once put a man who attacked her, into hospital, with a hat pin. The pics are of a lawi ayam that was used in an attack on a man around 1920, probably in Singapore; it is 6" overall in the scabbard, and 5.5" out of the scabbard. Attached Images

30th December 2008, 07:03 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A few more Hi all, A few more to think about. Joan of Arc, Boudicca, who just featured in a history channel documentary today in Australia. Women were also gladiators in Rome. Here is a great link with lots of other links to women warriors. http://ancienthistory.about.com/libr.../aa032703a.htm Gav

30th December 2008, 01:43 PM	#7
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Philippine Dagger 3 as well as Dagger 2 I believe, in Krieger's Plate No. 13 (below), are both women's blades: "Plate 13. Hand weapons for cutting, piercing, and stabbing: Knives and daggers ... 2. Dagger "bala-rao"; hastate shape double-edged blade; handle provided with a peculiar finger-fitting grip consisting of extended tang and two horns; silver ferrule at center. Chief defense weapon of the Mandayan, southeastern Mindanao. 3. Woman's knife. Blade curved, designed for striking a slanting blow. Bagobo, southeastern Mindanao ..." Attached Images

29th December 2008, 05:26 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'll take one of the easier ones first: Japan. Yes, there were a few women warriors (onna bugeisha, or women trained in the use of weapons Tomoe Gozen was one), and samurai wives in general were expected to defend their households. That's one reason why in modern Japan and America, naginata-do is practiced more by girls and women than by men. Women also carried knives to commit suicide with. Supposedly there were female ninja, kunoichi, but I'm not sure how much about them is real, how much is fake, and whether they were assassins, spies, or some combination. I'll also throw in an interesting weapon from Korea: the jang do (link to one at Pitt Rivers). These were small (~10 cm) knives carried by women (and men to a lesser extent) during the Choseon period. Jang do were so highly ornamented that they were also jewelry, worn a variety of ways. Symbolically, they were also given to young women before their weddings, to protect against rape, and also as a symbol that they were now independent from their parents and full adults. My 0.002 cents, F

29th December 2008, 05:44 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Aleksey welcome to the forum Interesting question, heres a link to a previous thread which may interest you. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=amazons Regards David

29th December 2008, 08:33 PM	#3
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi Aleksey, women in Indonesia often carried a small keris known as a patrem for self defence.

30th December 2008, 02:57 AM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Hi Aleks, Well, you have seen what Anne has in her kitchen gallery! From Germany, to Papua New Guinea, with an emphasis in Africa, Philippines and Java. And an Arab Camel rifle.... Glad to see you posting here!!!