Rare Pilipino Swords....

Spunjer · 15th April 2005, 03:10 PM

ibeam,
i would hold off on your knife. double edge butter spreaders are hard to come by, lol.

Quote:

I would probably agree with Rick's comment as to the age.

that it has been re-wrapped, or a newer example?

as far as the carvings on the hilt is concerned, i don't think it's not much crispier than battara's or your garab's (btw, cool garab. no broken fin or anything

) althought the carvings on the scabbard's toe does look pretty crispy.
as for the mandaya sword, congrats

you've got yourself a rare piece there. can't wait to see some close ups (hint, hint)

Conogre · 15th April 2005, 05:08 PM

I have a problem with "book swords", meaning those with relatively few examples pictured in many to most books, as not only is the price radically elevated on them, so often it is, or at least WAS, assumed that ALL specimens have to look exactly like the known examples.
When I picked this up for $35 five years ago, even the more learned members swere speculating that it was a "bolo that may have been made by a Philippine smith who'd seen and was influenced by a kukri."(no disrespect intended, as it just shows how obscure some types were even just a few years ago)
From all of the information that has been found since that time, I, at least, am very comfortable with the fact that this is a Manaya sword, base upon the blade shape and the remaining carving on the scabbard, and furthermore, a true weapon as opposed to a tool/machete type implement as there would be no practical advantage in a sharpened upper curve EXCEPT in use as a slashing weapon.
It's so easy to forget that often only extremely impressive examples were, and still are pictured, but that for every Datu there were dozens, if not hundreds of simple warriors
whose weapons were much more basic but did the majority of the real fighting, thus making their condition, of necessity, much rougher.
I often find myself extremely frustrated as individuals make pronouncements of validity based upon just one or two widely seen examples, while it's been proven over and over that there was often a tremndous amount of variation in many to most weapons used and produced by hand on a tribal level.
In the meantime, I keep buying my "strange pieces"based upon gut instinct and similarities to known examples and have been happy that I have time after time that I did.
While I don't have many "Datu class" pieces, each time another form finally gets "discovered" I feel priveledged to at least HAVE a piece from the past that has all but disappeared.
That doesn't mean I'm not envious of those with the superb examples, of course (**grin**), and congratulations aquiring some fine pieces....just in case I happen to be in the area around midnight sometime in the future, you're located where again? **grin**
Mike

Rick · 15th April 2005, 05:57 PM

I'd like to make a comment at this point , my remarks in this thread were more observations than a pronouncement . I hope that everyone can read them as such .

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 03:17 AM

Of course....you mean they could possibly be taken any other way?**grin**
Mike

ibeam · 23rd April 2005, 05:09 AM

Here are some pics of the Mandaya swords.

Ian · 23rd April 2005, 11:49 AM

ibeam:

Those are two of the best looking Mandayan bolos I've seen. They are hard to find swords, as you have probably observed. Both seem to have some age -- any idea how old based on provenance?

Congratulations.

Spunjer · 23rd April 2005, 12:40 PM

congrats, ibeam! scored a nice piece.
the triangular metal piece on the handleand those "disc"; are they silver??? the handle seems to be made out of kamagong. pretty cool!

15th April 2005, 05:08 PM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I have a problem with "book swords", meaning those with relatively few examples pictured in many to most books, as not only is the price radically elevated on them, so often it is, or at least WAS, assumed that ALL specimens have to look exactly like the known examples. When I picked this up for $35 five years ago, even the more learned members swere speculating that it was a "bolo that may have been made by a Philippine smith who'd seen and was influenced by a kukri."(no disrespect intended, as it just shows how obscure some types were even just a few years ago) From all of the information that has been found since that time, I, at least, am very comfortable with the fact that this is a Manaya sword, base upon the blade shape and the remaining carving on the scabbard, and furthermore, a true weapon as opposed to a tool/machete type implement as there would be no practical advantage in a sharpened upper curve EXCEPT in use as a slashing weapon. It's so easy to forget that often only extremely impressive examples were, and still are pictured, but that for every Datu there were dozens, if not hundreds of simple warriors whose weapons were much more basic but did the majority of the real fighting, thus making their condition, of necessity, much rougher. I often find myself extremely frustrated as individuals make pronouncements of validity based upon just one or two widely seen examples, while it's been proven over and over that there was often a tremndous amount of variation in many to most weapons used and produced by hand on a tribal level. In the meantime, I keep buying my "strange pieces"based upon gut instinct and similarities to known examples and have been happy that I have time after time that I did. While I don't have many "Datu class" pieces, each time another form finally gets "discovered" I feel priveledged to at least HAVE a piece from the past that has all but disappeared. That doesn't mean I'm not envious of those with the superb examples, of course (grin), and congratulations aquiring some fine pieces....just in case I happen to be in the area around midnight sometime in the future, you're located where again? grin Mike Attached Images

23rd April 2005, 05:09 AM	#5
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Pics Here are some pics of the Mandaya swords. Attached Images

23rd April 2005, 11:49 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Lovely examples ibeam: Those are two of the best looking Mandayan bolos I've seen. They are hard to find swords, as you have probably observed. Both seem to have some age -- any idea how old based on provenance? Congratulations.

15th April 2005, 05:57 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'd like to make a comment at this point , my remarks in this thread were more observations than a pronouncement . I hope that everyone can read them as such .

16th April 2005, 03:17 AM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Of course....you mean they could possibly be taken any other way?grin Mike

23rd April 2005, 12:40 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	congrats, ibeam! scored a nice piece. the triangular metal piece on the handleand those "disc"; are they silver??? the handle seems to be made out of kamagong. pretty cool!