Orientation of the grip of this keris

[Freddy]

Most interesting post, guys.

I've been reading and looking at the added links.

As promised, I post pictures of this keris (or Tappi as Sipakatuo pointed out) when in my hand. At first, I want to state that it's a small keris with a small handle and I have big European hands

Here is first, in my humble opinion, the best way to hold this keris. The handle, when sheathed, would point a bit to the front, away from the wearer's body.







Secondly, I put the handle in the position it was when I got this piece. I must say that, after straightening the peksi (or watting), it was easier to get a grip. Before there just wasn't enough room for my fingers. Therefore, I believe the peksi was bent by accident in the past.

I must say in this way you also get a good grip of the keris. This grip and the first one make it possible to deliver straightforward thrusts and also cuts.

[Freddy]

I also tried the 'ice pick' hold. The grip is in the second position. I had to grip the handle in such a way that my little finger was on the blade. My ring finger was supported by the ganja. It was a firm grip, but I wonder if my hand wouldn't be cut if I delivered a downward thrust.

Could of course be due to my big hands

Anyway, here are the last pics :

[David]

OK Jussi, you are just cracking me up now.
Alan and Freddy, thanks for the photo illustrations. They are most helpful in this discussion.
Yes Alan, that is exactly how i held my keris in the "ice pick" grip. It still wasn't comfortable for me, but that shouldn't stop anyone else if it suits them. It does seem perhaps more indisputable (words chosen to avoid the absolute ) that this grip does limit the reach of the blade in action though.
Freddy makes a good point about the size of Western hands in this experiment. And your hilt does seem a bit smaller than the ones Alan and i are working with.
I can't speak to the concept of palace taboos since i don't know enough about this. It does seem to me though that went people get into a fight, especially when their life depends upon the outcome, they tend to fall back on what ever method works best for them.

[Alam Shah]

The keris happens to be a small keris. What is the length of the keris blade? 9" For the sheath, you would want to consider something like this, (( link )).

[Jussi M.]

Would you like to see my hilt? - it is reversed



Thanks,

J

[Freddy]

Alam Shah, you get it exactly right : the length is 22,5 cm (or 9 inches).

Fred

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes David, there are no absolutes.

I posted my pics of grip positions only to show that the possibilities are there. In real life situations many things can and do happen that fall outside the parameters of prescribed usage or behaviour, and this ,I am sure, is true of keris usage, as it is of many other things.

We can talk about kraton standards, and silat practices, and so on, and so on, but in days past, and faced with the many possibilities that could arise, I have no doubt at all that the men who used the keris as a weapon developed their own methodologies.

There are many other possibilities of grip that I did not show, but which can be perfect for specific situations.

David, you're perfectly correct in that an ice pick grip does reduce reach, however, to the extent that it reduces reach, it increases power. In a melee situation, as in a press of bodies in combat, the ice pick grip is the preferred grip, however, in a one on one situation, especially where combatants might not be of equal physical stature or prowess, the rapier grip can compensate for those physical shortcomings.

These days I think that perhaps we may tend to see the keris as a rather refined implement:- the "prayer in steel", and so forth, however, if we read our history, it does not take very long to realise that in the distant past it had an entirely different character, and this character was not quite so sanitised as it today.

[kulbuntet]

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

Would you like to see my hilt? - it is reversed



Thanks,

J

ROFLMAO