Strange Sumatran/Moro keris? kris? dagger? with a Dutch blade?

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by asomotif

The makers of this keris picked only a very small piece of a VOC blade.VOC swords where not very big/heavy but certainly bigger that what remains within this hybrid keris.

Normally VOC markings are not placed under the tang. So This hole is not a original hole for attaching the hilt.

I think that I need to make a picture of what I am asking to better clarify my question.

I am not suggesting the VOC marking was underneath the hilt, but that it was adjacent to, but just above the hilt. In this case the hilt would have covered the hole while also covering the numbers.

Originally Posted by asomotif

By the way, this reminds me of a thread by Antonio Cejunior, where he introduced a contemporary Moro / Tanto hybrid knife.
Some forumites where pretty nasty on his creation.

Antonio makes some beautiful art. Enough said. And, I like him and his passion for art.

Originally Posted by asomotif

In this case the maker of this odd Sumatra / Moro / VOC mix is not amongst us. That must be the reason of absent criticism. not ?

Well, you know he may be lurking somewhere, ready to spring from some darkened niche! Dressed as a Sumatran/Moro, yelling in Dutch!


And thanks David. Two ferocious dogs and a lion guard this!

I am suggesting that the blade started off as either a dagger, or the blade was broken off and a tip reground.

OK I have tried to be more explicit. See picture below where I have (crudely) drawn a black hilt on this (leaving a space to show the location of the hole). Maybe, just maybe, it could have had a rivet????



Does anyone have any idea about what was the blade configuration before this was made?

[DaveS]

Bill: Albert an I did see this blade at the Eugine Knife Show. Congratulations on a great find. This is the kind of thing that comes along sometimes once in a collecters liftime. I was going to buy it until i found out the price. I thought it was a little steep so i passed. Kinda sorry i did. Oh well........at least its still in the "family"............Dave.

[kai]

Hello Bill,

Congrats again - this is really a unique combo! While the VOC blade got recycelt, I'd guess that the bahari-like gonjo as well as the Malay keris sundang hilt were crafted for this piece.

The numbers visible on your kris are the last 2 digits of the year - if you ever get access to a specialized lab, I'm fairly confident that the hidden century (1?46) can be revealed!

Actually, the markings of VOC blades are not close to the hilt - the hole is certainly not original to the European blade; I also see no reason for a keris/kris to have this hole. I don't think this is much of a distraction - pieces of history tend to be not in mint condition...

Here's a recent thread showing 2 badik with recycled VOC blades:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6291

I'm attaching the relevant blade pics below:




Regards,
Kai

[kai]

2nd try...

(Pics courtesy of Alan and Dominique.)

[Bill M]

Thank you DaveS and Kai. Phillip Tom also saw it.

Dave, in the unlikely event I ever let it go, I will let you know first.

Especially thanks to Kai for the explanation of the VOC markings on the blade. I really have no problem with the hole in the blade, just curiosity.

If only these pieces could talk! What stories!

Kai, what kind of specialized lab would find the missing digit?

[asomotif]

Well, you know he may be lurking somewhere, ready to spring from some darkened niche! Dressed as a Sumatran/Moro, yelling in Dutch!

Well Bill,

I like tribal art and tribal weapons because every object is different and indeed it makes one curious for the past of an object.

In that aspect this is one of the most interesting pieces i have ever seen.

Once more congrats !

Best regards,
Willem

[Battara]

Yes this is a fascinating puppy - almost got it when I saw here in Louisville....

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Battara

Yes this is a fascinating puppy - almost got it when I saw here in Louisville....

GOD! This piece has gotten around more than my ex-wife!!

But thanks, all. It is an interesting piece. Should I go hang it on a nail?

[kai]

Hello Bill,

Should I go hang it on a nail?

Better use a screw with one of those weird heads - that will help more than the lion to keep it in place...

I'm not sure what would be the best approach to reveal the missing digit which is hidden below the forge weld. There are ways to examine wether a steel has hidden flaws and some of these should also work for this task. (I'm assuming that remnants of that digit are still present since the welding seems to be less than perfect which should make this fairly easy in the hands of an expert.)

BTW, the most likely date is 1746. It also could be 1646 but that would be pretty early, indeed. (In the 18th century there were a lot more VOC blades in circulation than in the 17th c.)

I also like those Batak blades - keep them coming!

Regards,
Kai

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

GOD! This piece has gotten around more than my ex-wife!!

You know Bill, come to think of it.......

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Well Bill,

I like tribal art and tribal weapons because every object is different and indeed it makes one curious for the past of an object.

In that aspect this is one of the most interesting pieces i have ever seen.

Once more congrats !

Best regards,
Willem

Thanks, Willem,

I have two Batak swords I'll be posting soon. I bet that you like at least ONE of them also!