"regular" VOC sword or ethnograpical object?

Mytribalworld · 17th October 2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is an interesting sword that seems in line with quite modern weapons seen in West Africa, as has been noted. Some have standard type stirrup hilts of European military form, while this, as has been mentioned seems in line with many European hunting hangers.
I think Tim has a very good suggestion on the zoomorphic hilt representing the leopard. It seems that the leopard totem was significant in secret societies as well as other cultural symbolism as he has mentioned.
The multinational trade that prevailed on the west coast of Africa during the 18th century diffused many weapons into these regions and may account for what appears to be an 18th c. blade here.

I agree that it is extremely rare to find a VOC marked blade, as in my collecting days I tried for many years unsuccessfully to find one! It seems they did turn up occasionally on Sinhalese kastanes (for some reason the year 1768 seems predominant on those examples).

I am curious about the note about the markings on this blade which note the markings apply to the Amsterdam department of VOC. I was not aware that the different cities used different markings.....is there any way to know the differences.....just in case any of us might get lucky enough to find one of these rare blades?

I would really appreciate knowing more on this and hope those of you with keen insight into this seldom discussed topic might comment.

Hi Jim,

Maybe the reason of the year 1768 on the blades is that in these years the Khanda of Ceylon was in war with the VOC. Its also known that later in these war the Ceylonese where stronger. Maybe they have captured a VOC weapon depot of fresh made blades in those days?

The VOC was set up in 1602 as "United East Indian Company" and from whole Holland people could join in the bussines.Thats why the company choose not the centralise the leadership in one city but to make "chambers" in the most know places.In each chamber was a part of the leadership.
There where 6 chambers:Amsterdam,Rotterdam,Middelburg,Hoorn,Enkh uizen and Delft.The money each member put into the commpany stayed there so all objects wher common property. All tools ,ships, weaponery, earthenware cannons etc where marked with the logo of the VOC and each chamber had his own mark.I found by Googling some marks. In most cases the mark excist in the common VOC logo joined with an "A"in the case of Amsterdam, "H" for Hoorn, "M" for middelburg ( together with the "Z" of the province "Zeeland").
ther where however a lot of variations on the logos what makes it today very difficult to see if the marks are original or not.old marks varies from beautifull well designed marks till likely hastly scratched marks. Also of course many objects like Bone china and also swords are copied.If thats also In this case I don't know.I had the idea that this was a good object.But I'm not an expert in those markings.What I know for sure is that this sword is a very old one.Also I can see that its certainly not a complated piece.

Arjan.

Tim Simmons · 17th October 2007, 07:41 AM

try google "Dutch interests West Africa"

Mytribalworld · 18th October 2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

try google "Dutch interests West Africa"

Hi Tim,

you have any specific site in mind?

more leopard pics should be welcome!

regards,

Arjan.

Tim Simmons · 18th October 2007, 07:27 PM

No specific site. Just to show how active the Dutch were in early 19th century West Africa yet she never took full colonial control as the French, British and Germans did.

Besides often secret leopard cults of which some could be the dirty hand of the state. The leopard is also a symbol of authority. The leopard on your sword handle is wonderfully compact and so monumental for such a small carving. Here is another stool, Bamileke which is not the trade coast but still shows the same style of expression.

Dajak · 20th October 2007, 05:59 AM

Hi Tim don't forget that south African languae is like old Dutch and that Kaap de goede Hoop was long in Dutch hands so I think we stayed long enough there that they do talk today or languae .
It is not to be proud off but we also the first that bring the slave s to America in the KIT museum in amsterdam is still the original books from the period that tells how much slave s they take on board off the ship and how many survived the trip and how much they make .
So I think the Dutch had an big influence in the South part off Africa .

The Dutch written history did start in 1652 at that moment did Jan van Riebeeck make an harbourstation at Kaap the Goede Hoop (Dutch name) he was working for the VOC
the part with Dutch kolonisten did get slowy bigger in the 17 and 18 century till east till the Visrivier .
In 1795 the brittisch take control give it back in 1803 .
And take it over again in 1806Then ther was some trouble about compensation stopping the slavery and Dutch kolonisten (also german ) known as Boeren did get away in the years 1830-1840 .
They make different state s like the Oranjevrijstaat and Transvaal.

Ben

18th October 2007, 07:27 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	No specific site. Just to show how active the Dutch were in early 19th century West Africa yet she never took full colonial control as the French, British and Germans did. Besides often secret leopard cults of which some could be the dirty hand of the state. The leopard is also a symbol of authority. The leopard on your sword handle is wonderfully compact and so monumental for such a small carving. Here is another stool, Bamileke which is not the trade coast but still shows the same style of expression. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 18th October 2007 at 08:18 PM.

20th October 2007, 05:59 AM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Tim don't forget that south African languae is like old Dutch and that Kaap de goede Hoop was long in Dutch hands so I think we stayed long enough there that they do talk today or languae . It is not to be proud off but we also the first that bring the slave s to America in the KIT museum in amsterdam is still the original books from the period that tells how much slave s they take on board off the ship and how many survived the trip and how much they make . So I think the Dutch had an big influence in the South part off Africa . The Dutch written history did start in 1652 at that moment did Jan van Riebeeck make an harbourstation at Kaap the Goede Hoop (Dutch name) he was working for the VOC the part with Dutch kolonisten did get slowy bigger in the 17 and 18 century till east till the Visrivier . In 1795 the brittisch take control give it back in 1803 . And take it over again in 1806Then ther was some trouble about compensation stopping the slavery and Dutch kolonisten (also german ) known as Boeren did get away in the years 1830-1840 . They make different state s like the Oranjevrijstaat and Transvaal. Ben Last edited by Dajak; 20th October 2007 at 06:13 AM.

17th October 2007, 07:41 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	try google "Dutch interests West Africa"