ivory hilt/Madura, tree of life with DATE ?

David · 2nd March 2007, 01:29 PM

That's interesting. I certainly have never seen a dated hilt before, but who knows.

It is also possible that these numbers have a completely different implication, such a magickal number seires or some mystical meaning.
From your photo it appears that these numbers would have been carved at the time of making, but some different angles (a view from the bottom perhaps) and an overall view might be helpful.

Pangeran Datu · 2nd March 2007, 01:50 PM

Hi,

Just a friendly reminder

. I hope you realise that it may be against forum policy to discuss items currently on auction. My apologies if I'm mistaken

.

Regards.

David · 2nd March 2007, 02:06 PM

No Pargeran Datu, you are indeed correct. I am locking this thread until i can check out your accusation and if you are correct it will remain so until said auction is completed.

David · 4th March 2007, 04:34 PM

Since no evidence has arrived that this is a live auction i am re-opening this thread. I think this is a very interesting hilt that calls for some good discussion.
If i do find this piece to be presently in auction i will, of course, re-lock the thread. Just as a reminder (which i am sure you guys don't need

) discussion of live auctions are strictly forbidden, with a 10-day suspension for the original poster for the transgression.

Pangeran Datu · 6th March 2007, 05:36 AM

Hi Willem,

I see that the auction finished early. The seller must have gotten the price he/she was after. I hope you were the successful bidder.

As far as the date on the medal is concerned, I believe that it was a presentation piece, given to some or all of the 3000 or so Madurese troop detachment (prior to departure) assisting the VOC in subjugating Blambangan in the Puputan Bayu I war.
The VOC finally had a sufficiently large force assembled by Oct. 1771, but because of fears that their forces may succumb to disease and pestilence which were endemic in Blambangan at the time, they delayed their attack until 18 Dec. 1771.

All the best.

David · 6th March 2007, 11:40 PM

P.D., your explanation seems very plausible, though it does not explain the 1 and the 24. If this were meant as part of the date it could only be January 24th, which would date the hilt a good 9-11 mons. before the event you believe it commemorates. If it is not part of the date do you have any idea what it's significance might be?

A. G. Maisey · 7th March 2007, 01:56 AM

When we guess, anything is possible.

3000 handles all the same?

Yeah, maybe. Also maybe not.

The only person who knows what that number means is the bloke who ordered it carved, and I reckon he's dead.

But if we're allowed to guess, I'll have a guess too :- I reckon its to remind the original owner of the birthday of his senior wife--- if he forgot that he could be in real trouble.

2nd March 2007, 01:50 PM	#2
Pangeran Datu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 79	Transgression of auction-in-progress item? Hi, Just a friendly reminder. I hope you realise that it may be against forum policy to discuss items currently on auction. My apologies if I'm mistaken. Regards.

2nd March 2007, 01:29 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	That's interesting. I certainly have never seen a dated hilt before, but who knows. It is also possible that these numbers have a completely different implication, such a magickal number seires or some mystical meaning. From your photo it appears that these numbers would have been carved at the time of making, but some different angles (a view from the bottom perhaps) and an overall view might be helpful.

2nd March 2007, 02:06 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	No Pargeran Datu, you are indeed correct. I am locking this thread until i can check out your accusation and if you are correct it will remain so until said auction is completed.

4th March 2007, 04:34 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Since no evidence has arrived that this is a live auction i am re-opening this thread. I think this is a very interesting hilt that calls for some good discussion. If i do find this piece to be presently in auction i will, of course, re-lock the thread. Just as a reminder (which i am sure you guys don't need ) discussion of live auctions are strictly forbidden, with a 10-day suspension for the original poster for the transgression.

6th March 2007, 05:36 AM	#5
Pangeran Datu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 79	Hi Willem, I see that the auction finished early. The seller must have gotten the price he/she was after. I hope you were the successful bidder. As far as the date on the medal is concerned, I believe that it was a presentation piece, given to some or all of the 3000 or so Madurese troop detachment (prior to departure) assisting the VOC in subjugating Blambangan in the Puputan Bayu I war. The VOC finally had a sufficiently large force assembled by Oct. 1771, but because of fears that their forces may succumb to disease and pestilence which were endemic in Blambangan at the time, they delayed their attack until 18 Dec. 1771. All the best.

6th March 2007, 11:40 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	P.D., your explanation seems very plausible, though it does not explain the 1 and the 24. If this were meant as part of the date it could only be January 24th, which would date the hilt a good 9-11 mons. before the event you believe it commemorates. If it is not part of the date do you have any idea what it's significance might be?

7th March 2007, 01:56 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	When we guess, anything is possible. 3000 handles all the same? Yeah, maybe. Also maybe not. The only person who knows what that number means is the bloke who ordered it carved, and I reckon he's dead. But if we're allowed to guess, I'll have a guess too :- I reckon its to remind the original owner of the birthday of his senior wife--- if he forgot that he could be in real trouble.