ivory hilt/Madura, tree of life with DATE ?
 

Dear Keris collectors,

Can someone give me information on this type of hilt and especially on the date that is mentioned on it.
This ivory hilt says 24 1771 1 (24th january 1771 :confused: )

Can it be a real date ?
has anyone seen hilts with dates before ?
any comments questions are welcome.

Best regards,
Willem

That's interesting. I certainly have never seen a dated hilt before, but who knows. :shrug:
It is also possible that these numbers have a completely different implication, such a magickal number seires or some mystical meaning.
From your photo it appears that these numbers would have been carved at the time of making, but some different angles (a view from the bottom perhaps) and an overall view might be helpful. :)

Transgression of auction-in-progress item?
 

Hi,

Just a friendly reminder:). I hope you realise that it may be against forum policy to discuss items currently on auction. My apologies if I'm mistaken:D.

Regards.

No Pargeran Datu, you are indeed correct. I am locking this thread until i can check out your accusation and if you are correct it will remain so until said auction is completed. :)

Since no evidence has arrived that this is a live auction i am re-opening this thread. I think this is a very interesting hilt that calls for some good discussion.
If i do find this piece to be presently in auction i will, of course, re-lock the thread. Just as a reminder (which i am sure you guys don't need ;) ) discussion of live auctions are strictly forbidden, with a 10-day suspension for the original poster for the transgression. :eek: :)

Hi Willem,

I see that the auction finished early. The seller must have gotten the price he/she was after. I hope you were the successful bidder.

As far as the date on the medal is concerned, I believe that it was a presentation piece, given to some or all of the 3000 or so Madurese troop detachment (prior to departure) assisting the VOC in subjugating Blambangan in the Puputan Bayu I war.
The VOC finally had a sufficiently large force assembled by Oct. 1771, but because of fears that their forces may succumb to disease and pestilence which were endemic in Blambangan at the time, they delayed their attack until 18 Dec. 1771.

All the best.

P.D., your explanation seems very plausible, though it does not explain the 1 and the 24. If this were meant as part of the date it could only be January 24th, which would date the hilt a good 9-11 mons. before the event you believe it commemorates. If it is not part of the date do you have any idea what it's significance might be?

When we guess, anything is possible.

3000 handles all the same?

Yeah, maybe. Also maybe not.

The only person who knows what that number means is the bloke who ordered it carved, and I reckon he's dead.

But if we're allowed to guess, I'll have a guess too :- I reckon its to remind the original owner of the birthday of his senior wife--- if he forgot that he could be in real trouble.

The Keris was sold on a local dutch website.
It went slightly over my budget, so I had to let it go. :(
However for the sake of conversation some additional pictures.

PS. a friend suggested that maybe it is not a complete date , but that the 1771 is infact some islamic writting :confused:

Some comments on that ?

Best regards,
Willem

I doubt it's Islamic writing. If it is, then it's 1661. But then again, the number 7 does not look like islamic numeral. I guess we'll never know.:shrug:

G'day all,

Alan and Shahrial are right of course. There is so much uncertainty involved,
I merely 'stirred the pot to see what would surface'.:)

BTW Alan, for the sake of being pedantic, I did write: '...some or all of the 3000 or so ...' as I had doubts about the probability of such a large number as well..
On a more serious note though: What has puzzled me from the beginning is the use of Hindu-Arabic/Decimal numbers and the use of the Julian Calendar, if that is indeed what they are. I would have expected something in Arabic or Hanacaraka using the Islamic Calendar or Saka Calendar.
Maybe it was made for the benefit of a European.
Looking at the photo above, I wonder if the '24' could be a '21'?
If so, I'll make another calculated guess:
If it is a date, then it is: 21-1-1771.
Drawing a VERRYYY long bow, this was the DOB of one Vice-Admiral Arnold Adriaan Buyskes, Commissary-General of the Netherlands East Indies 1816-1818.
Maybe the hilt was made to commemorate his DOB.

Cheers:D

Probably for his Madurese wife, so she wouldn't forget his birthday.

LOL!!! :D :rolleyes: :D

Anyway, whoever, or whatever was responsible for this handle, this is a seriously nice keris.Honest old blade with zilch in the bobble-braid department, good ivory handle, and an absolutely lovely wrongko. This sort of thing just does not come along every day. Nice!

Yes, i would definitely agree...and i think it went for a rather reasonable price. I'm sorry i didn't know about this auction or i would have certainly considered bidding. :)

C.I.T.E.S. ??? :confused:
Or was it located in the States ?

Anyhow, the blade looks fairly short; a Patrem ?