Help with Sword ID

Mark · 22nd August 2006, 08:00 PM

There is a "middle" path, one could say, between pure tourist and a use blade, which is a martial arts blade. This could well be a daab made for use in the Thai martial art muay thai. Swordmaking is still very much a live tradition in Thailand, though there has been an unfortunate tendency to abandon tradition sword-making techniques for newer ones (such as stock removal). Most of the daab in the style of yours that I have seen are made by modern techniques, but whether strictly for tourist trade or for martial arts I cannot say. They certainly have the proper balance for use. Here is an article written by Antonio Cejunior about a visit he made to Aranyik, the sword-making center of Thailand: http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/visit.aranyik.htm
If you want information on daab generally, and pictures of other examples, try the Dha Research Index. Mostly pictures, actually.

Perhaps one of our Thai members can give some insight about where this style comes from (Aranyik is in the south, and there are other sword-making centers in the north, such as Chiang Mai).

PUFF · 23rd August 2006, 12:24 PM

Is this an ellipse mark?

This mark could be related to either Aranyik (central Thailand) or LumPang (Northern Thailand) 's product.

However, the pointy tip on the scabbard 's usually associate with modern Dahb from central Thailand. Also, the rattan works on the scabbard 's are not very neat. It 's likely to be a tourist type from Aranyik. Narrow/untaper spine (2/8" or less) will confirm this. A popular souviner from Ayuthaya (or Bangkok) though

Abravefan11 · 23rd August 2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

Is this an ellipse mark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

It 's likely to be a tourist type from Aranyik. Narrow/untaper spine (2/8" or less) will confirm this. A popular souviner from Ayuthaya (or Bangkok) though

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm not sure what you're telling me to look for in reference to the spine. If you don't mind if you could give me a little more explination.

Lee · 23rd August 2006, 03:25 PM

I believe Puff is describing a relatively thin blade which does not taper in thickness from the hilt to the tip.

Abravefan11 · 23rd August 2006, 03:52 PM

The spine definitely tapers. It's much thicker at the handle and tapers to the tip.

Andrew · 23rd August 2006, 04:33 PM

Puff,

Can you tell us anything about the markings we see on the spines of these swords? Any significance to the brass/copper/silver inset slugs?

Thanks,
Andrew

Mark · 23rd August 2006, 08:37 PM

Yeah, that is the "turtle" mark, sort of poorly struck. Some other examples:

Puff, Dan has reported that Lung Som calls the lower one the "bitter melon seed," but it occured to me that he might have been referring only to the rosettes on either side of the turtle, which I have also seen by themselves. Do you know if the "bitter melon seed" the same as the little turtle, or is it the rosettes? Lung Som said that the mark on the lower blade was used by two collaborating smiths, one from Aranyik and the other from Chiang Mai. which made me think that the turtle represented the Aranyik smith, and the two rosettes, the "bitter melon seeds," represented the Chiang Mai smith.

Abravefan, about the spine, a typical dha/daab is quite thick at the base (as much as a 1/2 inch), and will taper dramatically in the first 1/3 or so of the blade down to about 2/3 or 3/4 of that, then more gradually taper to a very thin width at the tip. The best way I can describe this "double taper" is that if you hold the blade up, spine towards you, it looks sort of like the Eiffel Tower.

One modern technique of making daab is to cut out the shape from sheet steel, and refine the shape by stock removal. This results in a less dramatic, or sometimes very little, distal taper, with the blade being a fairly uniform width and tapering nearer the tip (like swords from many other parts of the world, actually). The dramatic taper of the daab blade moves the point of balance very close to the grip, 2-3 inches or less. If the point of balance of your daab is further out, closer to the middle of the blade, this also indicates less distal taper.

23rd August 2006, 03:52 PM	#5
Abravefan11 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 7	The spine definitely tapers. It's much thicker at the handle and tapers to the tip. Attached Images

22nd August 2006, 08:00 PM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	There is a "middle" path, one could say, between pure tourist and a use blade, which is a martial arts blade. This could well be a daab made for use in the Thai martial art muay thai. Swordmaking is still very much a live tradition in Thailand, though there has been an unfortunate tendency to abandon tradition sword-making techniques for newer ones (such as stock removal). Most of the daab in the style of yours that I have seen are made by modern techniques, but whether strictly for tourist trade or for martial arts I cannot say. They certainly have the proper balance for use. Here is an article written by Antonio Cejunior about a visit he made to Aranyik, the sword-making center of Thailand: http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/visit.aranyik.htm If you want information on daab generally, and pictures of other examples, try the Dha Research Index. Mostly pictures, actually. Perhaps one of our Thai members can give some insight about where this style comes from (Aranyik is in the south, and there are other sword-making centers in the north, such as Chiang Mai).

23rd August 2006, 12:24 PM	#2
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Is this an ellipse mark? This mark could be related to either Aranyik (central Thailand) or LumPang (Northern Thailand) 's product. However, the pointy tip on the scabbard 's usually associate with modern Dahb from central Thailand. Also, the rattan works on the scabbard 's are not very neat. It 's likely to be a tourist type from Aranyik. Narrow/untaper spine (2/8" or less) will confirm this. A popular souviner from Ayuthaya (or Bangkok) though

23rd August 2006, 03:25 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	I believe Puff is describing a relatively thin blade which does not taper in thickness from the hilt to the tip.

23rd August 2006, 04:33 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Puff, Can you tell us anything about the markings we see on the spines of these swords? Any significance to the brass/copper/silver inset slugs? Thanks, Andrew

23rd August 2006, 08:37 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Yeah, that is the "turtle" mark, sort of poorly struck. Some other examples: Puff, Dan has reported that Lung Som calls the lower one the "bitter melon seed," but it occured to me that he might have been referring only to the rosettes on either side of the turtle, which I have also seen by themselves. Do you know if the "bitter melon seed" the same as the little turtle, or is it the rosettes? Lung Som said that the mark on the lower blade was used by two collaborating smiths, one from Aranyik and the other from Chiang Mai. which made me think that the turtle represented the Aranyik smith, and the two rosettes, the "bitter melon seeds," represented the Chiang Mai smith. Abravefan, about the spine, a typical dha/daab is quite thick at the base (as much as a 1/2 inch), and will taper dramatically in the first 1/3 or so of the blade down to about 2/3 or 3/4 of that, then more gradually taper to a very thin width at the tip. The best way I can describe this "double taper" is that if you hold the blade up, spine towards you, it looks sort of like the Eiffel Tower. One modern technique of making daab is to cut out the shape from sheet steel, and refine the shape by stock removal. This results in a less dramatic, or sometimes very little, distal taper, with the blade being a fairly uniform width and tapering nearer the tip (like swords from many other parts of the world, actually). The dramatic taper of the daab blade moves the point of balance very close to the grip, 2-3 inches or less. If the point of balance of your daab is further out, closer to the middle of the blade, this also indicates less distal taper.