strange sword

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Detlef, I respect your extensive knowledge of the SE Asian region and related areas. For that reason, I consulted every reference that I have on hand that is relevant to NE India and the Himalayan areas looking for any similar hilt.

The many and varied tribal groups making up Assam, Manipur and Arunachal Pradash present a challenge to identify particular sword types in the literature and there are few data from the 18th C. The lack of 18th C information may not be a major problem as several authors indicate that swords pre-1800 were similar to what was observed in the 1800s in the tribal areas. The most frequently encountered swords in NW India were guardless dao carried in an open-faced wooden scabbard or woven wicker sheath. Next most common were swords from (a) Bhutan and Tibet (with small round guards and short hilts) and (b) Burma (Kachin/Jingpho and Burman) which are guardless and have medium length hilts. Occasionally, Indian swords with Mughal tulwar-style hilts are seen, but these seem confined to the more affluent and powerful members of the NW Indian groups. Mention is also made of Chinese swords but these were among the tribal groups in the most northern and remote areas of Arunachal Pradesh.

The hilt on the O.P. here has a fairly large circular guard and longish hilt. The O.P.'s hilt is not typical of Burmese, Kachin, Bhutanese, Tibetan or Chinese styles.

Detlef, if you still feel this hilt is from NE India then please show me another example from that area with a similar hilt. Otherwise, with the greatest respect, I think we need to look elsewhere.

Hi Ian,

Thx a lot for your respect! I know a former owner of this sword and have discussed it some years ago with this person, it's travelled a little bit in the last few years. Let me say first a little bit about the handle materials, the tubular hilt isn't from metal (it don't will react magnetic) but from lacquered wood, the pommel is with some certain not from ivory (it was guessed that it's from an early plastic (cellulose, bakelite or so on) and for the disc guard is used the disc of a tulwar pommel. Sorry Patterson25 that I need to correct you!
The previous owner with whom I discussed this sword before as well as the owner who put it to auction and discussed it with other collectors guessed the from me given origin. The sword is an oddball for sure and I think that nobody will be able to say for sure from where exactly it is coming. My guess is as good as your one. We only can give educated guesses. Someone made for himself or someone else a sword from parts, a long time ago.

With the same respect you given to me ,
Detlef

[Patterson25]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Ian,

Thx a lot for your respect! I know a former owner of this sword and have discussed it some years ago with this person, it's travelled a little bit in the last few years. Let me say first a little bit about the handle materials, the tubular hilt isn't from metal (it don't will react magnetic) but from lacquered wood, the pommel is with some certain not from ivory (it was guessed that it's from an early plastic (cellulose, bakelite or so on) and for the disc guard is used the disc of a tulwar pommel. Sorry Patterson25 that I need to correct you!
The previous owner with whom I discussed this sword before as well as the owner who put it to auction and discussed it with other collectors guessed the from me given origin. The sword is an oddball for sure and I think that nobody will be able to say for sure from where exactly it is coming. My guess is as good as your one. We only can give educated guesses. Someone made for himself or someone else a sword from parts, a long time ago.

With the same respect you given to me ,
Detlef

Sorry Detlef to correct you - but did you have the sword in hand? The tubular hilt is not made of wood but made of metal, it sounds like metal and I will post of photo where you can see a vertical line showing the joint line.
I'm new to the forum and I will be happy to hear something informative or new to me.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Patterson25

Sorry Detlef to correct you - but did you have the sword in hand? The tubular hilt is not made of wood but made of metal, it sounds like metal and I will post of photo where you can see a vertical line showing the joint line.

There's no need to feel attacked. I trust my friend, who's been dealing with ethnographic blades for ages. And no, I didn't hold the piece in my own hands, but as I said...

Originally Posted by Patterson25

I'm new to the forum and I will be happy to hear something informative or new to me.

You've read here a lot of comments which coming from versed collectors, your most interesting sword is an oddball, you will know it, it's not a textbook example and only the maker and first owner could say exactly where it was made once, all people here can make only educated guesses, sorry.

Regards,
Detlef

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Patterson25

Sorry Detlef to correct you - but did you have the sword in hand? The tubular hilt is not made of wood but made of metal, it sounds like metal and I will post of photo where you can see a vertical line showing the joint line.
I'm new to the forum and I will be happy to hear something informative or new to me.

hi Paatterson25. as you have the sword in hand now? some more much more details photos would be in order. im inclined to agree the guard DOES indeed look like a tulwar disk !
lets have some more details. it might be some old Frankenstein work or something more curious..

[Tim Simmons]

My comments were not to stiffle debate, more that many uninformed people can have quite strident oppions. Which can be exhausting at times.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

My comments were not to stiffle debate, more that many uninformed people can have quite strident oppions. Which can be exhausting at times.

Whom do you mean?

[Tim Simmons]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Whom do you mean?

No one in particular. However they are out there. I have not had it here for at least two decades.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

No one in particular. However they are out there. I have not had it here for at least two decades.

Thank you for clarifying Tim!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Ian,

Thx a lot for your respect! I know a former owner of this sword and have discussed it some years ago with this person, it's travelled a little bit in the last few years. Let me say first a little bit about the handle materials, the tubular hilt isn't from metal (it don't will react magnetic) but from lacquered wood, the pommel is with some certain not from ivory (it was guessed that it's from an early plastic (cellulose, bakelite or so on) and for the disc guard is used the disc of a tulwar pommel. Sorry Patterson25 that I need to correct you!
The previous owner with whom I discussed this sword before as well as the owner who put it to auction and discussed it with other collectors guessed the from me given origin. The sword is an oddball for sure and I think that nobody will be able to say for sure from where exactly it is coming. My guess is as good as your one. We only can give educated guesses. Someone made for himself or someone else a sword from parts, a long time ago.

With the same respect you given to me ,
Detlef

Detlef, it's very interesting that you know this sword. Thank you for sharing your insights. As you say, this is a very unusual assembly that was put together years ago. We can but guess for what purpose, and I agree completely that we may never know where and when and by whom this was done. It has certainly generated some lively discussion here and in former times may have gone on for many pages to rival the infamous "SHAVER COOL" thread.