My first Nimcha

[fennec]

HI Jacenty !
What a beautifull PIRATE NIMCHA ... It's pretty rare to find those "boarding" swords, with a large yalman, with an Iflissen scabbard (made around the area of Kabylie in Algeria).
many "algerian" things here can confirm the origin.

- First of all the shape of the sword, realy much appreciated by algerian "corsairs", "pirates", "barbary", or how ever the ancient times called them (I prefer the term "algerian fleet..."). No need to make a history resume to know why those shapes was much more foundable in algeria, than Tunisia or Morocco (except Salé).

- Then the gard. Brass is also very used for that part in algeria, giving generally smaller quillons than moroccan or just steel gards. And of course the shape of it. If we commonly call that a "zanzibar" nimcha guard, those are also very common in algeria.

- The shape of the handle (could detail, but soon as a book ), is typically algerian. Probably has lost its end of the pommel, also that metal (brass?) part running around. All of this is typical from algerian craftsmanship, you can find some similarities with those very beautifull algerian "navy nimcha" like the one on the MET museum, or the ones of admiral De Ruiter, of Tromp (cornelis).

- The handle initially looks wood for me, what is not a bad thing (sometimes covered by luxury parts), in this case it would be some walnut, blackened with natural dies (very hard wood). But you says its horn, wich is much more common on those pieces. Howerver, if you notice any "level" differences on each side (like a "bevel") it could mean that something is missing (many silver and coral parts had been taken off from those pieces during colonisation era to craft jewels for tourists).

- And finally, the scabbard, of course. The only "missing" algerian thing, would be a hole on the pommel...haha

- the mark is a kind of usual "maker marks" put in algeria with oviously an ottoman inspiration. We usually find a circle (or more rarely, shapes like on ottoman swords, like a circle, with some additionnal shape over it), with some arabic writtings in it.

PICTURES :
Here is model close to yours, but less "boarding" shape. Note the "missing" part on the handle. Usually algerian fill it with a textured (repooussé work) silver plate, or something natural like ivory or tortoil shell. For this one the gard is in steel, but still having that "ring" shape.



May I ask you if I could use your picture/sword as an exemple for my book (and mentionning the owner, of course) ?

And if anyone knows the owner of the second ones, yatagan and nimcha with Iflissen scabbard, it would be so amazing !!

PS. Thanks a lot to all who helped me in that project, I'm really becoming to it like a common work, so thanks again for that !!

[fennec]

(Sorry here is the picture)

[TVV]

Originally Posted by fennec

(Sorry here is the picture)

Thank you for posting this sword Khaled. I have always wondered about the origin of this particular type of steel guard with a ring. Your example makes a strong case for an Algerian attribution.

I am attaching the pictures of a sword I have with this type of guard (the blade and hilt are of no help here), followed by an example from the Quai Branly and another from Oriental Arms sold archive.

Regards,
Teodor

[fennec]

Hi Theodor, its a pleasure to enlight as much I can.
You right, it is quite difficult to define a nimcha (especially algerian, that mixed a lot of styles, due to a lot of influence of the algerian fleet at this era, I guess), only by one element, as the blade only, or the hanlde, only, etc... I usually have to combine many points to be sure that a model is algerian, especially for some very "modest" ones, that dont display a lot of particularitis ( a handle shape shared with morocco, a classic guard, a straight sword, no scabbard, etc...).

For yours, not only the guard lead me to an algerian origin, but also the handle. to be "simple", Ive seen those "agressive" shapes of nimcha, only in algeria. Moroccan ones are more "big and round" usually, the handle is not straight, and generally goes larger for some centimeters after the guard. Of course those shapes are also very common in algeria, especially in the ouest (remember that algeria is very big, even in the past, a nimcha close to morocco, should be quite different from one from the east). But those kinds, more "geometric", more agressive, with a "spine" in the pommel (that remember some ones on what I call "boarding algerian nimcha", those ones with an austrian/italian sword, and luxury handles), are very tipical from algeria (and I guess, around Algiers).
Another element for me is the marks on it, those lines running from the guard to the pommel. This is also tipically algerian, and you can even see them on the last picture you shared. For me, this si again like a reminding of those handles with more details, those lines make generally a border between the central part, that could hold some luxury material, and the edges. This is something like a "visual reminding" of this esthethic, in my thought.

Best regards

[TVV]

Fennec, thank you for input. You make a lot of great points. As the biggest country in Africa now, Algeria is so vast that some regional variation is to be expected.

Here is another nimcha, ex Claude, published in his book. The hilt to me looks Moroccan, but Claude classifies it as Algerian.

[Jim McDougall]

It seems there has long been a great deal of confusion on the 'nimcha'.
Setting aside the misnomer of the term itself, the classifications as to where the forms might be attributed has been baffling.

It does seem that the most familiar type without the ring on the guard is typically regarded as Moroccan. However Stone (1934) if I recall, does refer to these as Algerian. It seems that the attribution was based possibly on the broader association with the Malakite rite (if I recall) school of Islam? which transcended Algerian and Moroccan borders of course.

This example of 'ring guard' nimcha I acquired from Artzi about 24 years ago and it was said to be of a batch of 40 varied examples from an armory in Yemen some years before. Then he had noted these had been mounted in Zanzibar and to supply Yemeni forces during the various conflicts years before.
I believe I saw this attribution in the book by Alain Jacob (1985) as well.

In Buttin (1933) of course no such attribution to Zanzibar or specifically to Morocco or Algeria is made, only that these are ARAB sabers.

So if I understand, it appears that my example would be Algerian?
Though I know that there are nimchas attributable to Zanzibar, this ring guard feature appears to not be a factor.

The last image is a Moroccan sa'if (Moroccan markings at forte).

PS.....anyone know where I might find a copy of Eric Claudes book????

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

So if I understand, it appears that my example would be Algerian?
Though I know that there are nimchas attributable to Zanzibar, this ring guard feature appears to not be a factor.

Jim, your example is Yemeni.

[fennec]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

So if I understand, it appears that my example would be Algerian?

For me too it's from zanzibar. Too "big"/large pommel, I mean, no shape at all for the bottom, this is uncommon in algeria. You can also note that quillon wich is along the blade. It has the typical work from those place (zanzibar, but also oman etc), that display another geometry than algerian ones (usally something more round, like the rosebud etc), that looks like an animal head or I dont know (look the attached picture from a luxurious zanzibar nimcha).
The only point that could make it algerian for me, is the straight quillon covering the hand, and the straight shape of the handle, both points that are rare for zanzibar, but not enough to make it algerian.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

PS.....anyone know where I might find a copy of Eric Claudes book????

Have you try to ask him directly (facebook, etc) ? Or may be can I for you ? I dont know if he still have some. I just dont come here very often so sorry by advance

[fennec]

Originally Posted by TVV

Here is another nimcha, ex Claude, published in his book. The hilt to me looks Moroccan, but Claude classifies it as Algerian.

Hi my friend.
Oh yeah I know it very well, I've even write some lines about it on my book. I've passed some days trying to find a meaning to the "magical square" and other writtings on it, making crosschecks with local algerian believes (well... may be I have to talk about Al Buni once.. or just publish that ****) etc..
So, yeah, for me it is an algerian sword.
First of all the guard, never seen one like that in morocco. Then the sword, more a "navy one", that those straight cavalery used in our neighbours coutry. Of course the writtings on it, that are, for me, also more used in algeria (many many swords wrote that way, or with full sentence.. never or very rarely seen in that "simple way" in morocco).
The hilt also display a pattern (floral shapes with 5 point flowers) that is common in Kabylie, and already used on some other pieces (I'll search exemple as soon as I can). And the shape of the hilt itself, note that little spine on the bottom, and a bit more textured pommel (the part that faces the quillon, its look a bit like the handle of those tourist/mariage little curved flissa). And of course, also the lines on each spine of it, Ive talked about before.
And then the scabbard, also an algerian thing for me... very common in algeria to find those "simple made" scabbard, with just a piece of brass as top and bottom, where morrocan usually make another kind of work, not to say more stylish haha...

[TVV]

When it comes to this type of guard, here is another sword with it and an English hanger blade. That one does look very Moroccan.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fennec

HI Jacenty !
What a beautifull PIRATE NIMCHA ... It's pretty rare to find those "boarding" swords, with a large yalman, with an Iflissen scabbard (made around the area of Kabylie in Algeria).
many "algerian" things here can confirm the origin.

- First of all the shape of the sword, realy much appreciated by algerian "corsairs", "pirates", "barbary", or how ever the ancient times called them (I prefer the term "algerian fleet..."). No need to make a history resume to know why those shapes was much more foundable in algeria, than Tunisia or Morocco (except Salé).

- Then the gard. Brass is also very used for that part in algeria, giving generally smaller quillons than moroccan or just steel gards. And of course the shape of it. If we commonly call that a "zanzibar" nimcha guard, those are also very common in algeria.

- The shape of the handle (could detail, but soon as a book ), is typically algerian. Probably has lost its end of the pommel, also that metal (brass?) part running around. All of this is typical from algerian craftsmanship, you can find some similarities with those very beautifull algerian "navy nimcha" like the one on the MET museum, or the ones of admiral De Ruiter, of Tromp (cornelis).

- The handle initially looks wood for me, what is not a bad thing (sometimes covered by luxury parts), in this case it would be some walnut, blackened with natural dies (very hard wood). But you says its horn, wich is much more common on those pieces. Howerver, if you notice any "level" differences on each side (like a "bevel") it could mean that something is missing (many silver and coral parts had been taken off from those pieces during colonisation era to craft jewels for tourists).

- And finally, the scabbard, of course. The only "missing" algerian thing, would be a hole on the pommel...haha

- the mark is a kind of usual "maker marks" put in algeria with oviously an ottoman inspiration. We usually find a circle (or more rarely, shapes like on ottoman swords, like a circle, with some additionnal shape over it), with some arabic writtings in it.

PICTURES :
Here is model close to yours, but less "boarding" shape. Note the "missing" part on the handle. Usually algerian fill it with a textured (repooussé work) silver plate, or something natural like ivory or tortoil shell. For this one the gard is in steel, but still having that "ring" shape.



May I ask you if I could use your picture/sword as an exemple for my book (and mentionning the owner, of course) ?

And if anyone knows the owner of the second ones, yatagan and nimcha with Iflissen scabbard, it would be so amazing !!

PS. Thanks a lot to all who helped me in that project, I'm really becoming to it like a common work, so thanks again for that !!

Probably worth pointing out that this rare saber unfortunately got destroyed and it's blade repurposed by its owner.

[fennec]

Originally Posted by werecow

Probably worth pointing out that this rare saber unfortunately got destroyed and it's blade repurposed by its owner.

"Destroyed".... I mean.... Okay... :confus::confus::confus:
I've heard that story recently, and my algerian hearth bleed... haha but no judgement, everyone is free to use his stuff how he want !
Thanks for the info !