My first Nimcha

[Jacenty]

I found another Nimcha on this forum with a similar seal to the one on my sabre. Perhaps it is just a coincidence?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jacenty

I found another Nimcha on this forum with a similar seal to the one on my sabre. Perhaps it is just a coincidence?
Attachment 238636

More compelling evidence that this is Algerian! It does seem that trade centers in Algeria had workers who indeed used cold stamps which replicated well known marks to suggest blade quality and impress buyers. Again this is seen in Briggs(1965) in his illustration of a nimcha with three groove fullers like this.
He was situated in Algeria when he wrote his work on the blades used in Tuareg swords and daggers, so his focus on blades became one of the key references on the topic.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Jacenty

I found another Nimcha on this forum with a similar seal to the one on my sabre. Perhaps it is just a coincidence?
Attachment 238636

Interesting! Where did you spot this one? Would be good to cross link these threads.

[Jacenty]

This blade designation is in this entry:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=nimcha

[fennec]

HI Jacenty !
What a beautifull PIRATE NIMCHA ... It's pretty rare to find those "boarding" swords, with a large yalman, with an Iflissen scabbard (made around the area of Kabylie in Algeria).
many "algerian" things here can confirm the origin.

- First of all the shape of the sword, realy much appreciated by algerian "corsairs", "pirates", "barbary", or how ever the ancient times called them (I prefer the term "algerian fleet..."). No need to make a history resume to know why those shapes was much more foundable in algeria, than Tunisia or Morocco (except Salé).

- Then the gard. Brass is also very used for that part in algeria, giving generally smaller quillons than moroccan or just steel gards. And of course the shape of it. If we commonly call that a "zanzibar" nimcha guard, those are also very common in algeria.

- The shape of the handle (could detail, but soon as a book ), is typically algerian. Probably has lost its end of the pommel, also that metal (brass?) part running around. All of this is typical from algerian craftsmanship, you can find some similarities with those very beautifull algerian "navy nimcha" like the one on the MET museum, or the ones of admiral De Ruiter, of Tromp (cornelis).

- The handle initially looks wood for me, what is not a bad thing (sometimes covered by luxury parts), in this case it would be some walnut, blackened with natural dies (very hard wood). But you says its horn, wich is much more common on those pieces. Howerver, if you notice any "level" differences on each side (like a "bevel") it could mean that something is missing (many silver and coral parts had been taken off from those pieces during colonisation era to craft jewels for tourists).

- And finally, the scabbard, of course. The only "missing" algerian thing, would be a hole on the pommel...haha

- the mark is a kind of usual "maker marks" put in algeria with oviously an ottoman inspiration. We usually find a circle (or more rarely, shapes like on ottoman swords, like a circle, with some additionnal shape over it), with some arabic writtings in it.

PICTURES :
Here is model close to yours, but less "boarding" shape. Note the "missing" part on the handle. Usually algerian fill it with a textured (repooussé work) silver plate, or something natural like ivory or tortoil shell. For this one the gard is in steel, but still having that "ring" shape.



May I ask you if I could use your picture/sword as an exemple for my book (and mentionning the owner, of course) ?

And if anyone knows the owner of the second ones, yatagan and nimcha with Iflissen scabbard, it would be so amazing !!

PS. Thanks a lot to all who helped me in that project, I'm really becoming to it like a common work, so thanks again for that !!

[fennec]

(Sorry here is the picture)

[TVV]

Originally Posted by fennec

(Sorry here is the picture)

Thank you for posting this sword Khaled. I have always wondered about the origin of this particular type of steel guard with a ring. Your example makes a strong case for an Algerian attribution.

I am attaching the pictures of a sword I have with this type of guard (the blade and hilt are of no help here), followed by an example from the Quai Branly and another from Oriental Arms sold archive.

Regards,
Teodor

[fennec]

Hi Theodor, its a pleasure to enlight as much I can.
You right, it is quite difficult to define a nimcha (especially algerian, that mixed a lot of styles, due to a lot of influence of the algerian fleet at this era, I guess), only by one element, as the blade only, or the hanlde, only, etc... I usually have to combine many points to be sure that a model is algerian, especially for some very "modest" ones, that dont display a lot of particularitis ( a handle shape shared with morocco, a classic guard, a straight sword, no scabbard, etc...).

For yours, not only the guard lead me to an algerian origin, but also the handle. to be "simple", Ive seen those "agressive" shapes of nimcha, only in algeria. Moroccan ones are more "big and round" usually, the handle is not straight, and generally goes larger for some centimeters after the guard. Of course those shapes are also very common in algeria, especially in the ouest (remember that algeria is very big, even in the past, a nimcha close to morocco, should be quite different from one from the east). But those kinds, more "geometric", more agressive, with a "spine" in the pommel (that remember some ones on what I call "boarding algerian nimcha", those ones with an austrian/italian sword, and luxury handles), are very tipical from algeria (and I guess, around Algiers).
Another element for me is the marks on it, those lines running from the guard to the pommel. This is also tipically algerian, and you can even see them on the last picture you shared. For me, this si again like a reminding of those handles with more details, those lines make generally a border between the central part, that could hold some luxury material, and the edges. This is something like a "visual reminding" of this esthethic, in my thought.

Best regards

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fennec

HI Jacenty !
What a beautifull PIRATE NIMCHA ... It's pretty rare to find those "boarding" swords, with a large yalman, with an Iflissen scabbard (made around the area of Kabylie in Algeria).
many "algerian" things here can confirm the origin.

- First of all the shape of the sword, realy much appreciated by algerian "corsairs", "pirates", "barbary", or how ever the ancient times called them (I prefer the term "algerian fleet..."). No need to make a history resume to know why those shapes was much more foundable in algeria, than Tunisia or Morocco (except Salé).

- Then the gard. Brass is also very used for that part in algeria, giving generally smaller quillons than moroccan or just steel gards. And of course the shape of it. If we commonly call that a "zanzibar" nimcha guard, those are also very common in algeria.

- The shape of the handle (could detail, but soon as a book ), is typically algerian. Probably has lost its end of the pommel, also that metal (brass?) part running around. All of this is typical from algerian craftsmanship, you can find some similarities with those very beautifull algerian "navy nimcha" like the one on the MET museum, or the ones of admiral De Ruiter, of Tromp (cornelis).

- The handle initially looks wood for me, what is not a bad thing (sometimes covered by luxury parts), in this case it would be some walnut, blackened with natural dies (very hard wood). But you says its horn, wich is much more common on those pieces. Howerver, if you notice any "level" differences on each side (like a "bevel") it could mean that something is missing (many silver and coral parts had been taken off from those pieces during colonisation era to craft jewels for tourists).

- And finally, the scabbard, of course. The only "missing" algerian thing, would be a hole on the pommel...haha

- the mark is a kind of usual "maker marks" put in algeria with oviously an ottoman inspiration. We usually find a circle (or more rarely, shapes like on ottoman swords, like a circle, with some additionnal shape over it), with some arabic writtings in it.

PICTURES :
Here is model close to yours, but less "boarding" shape. Note the "missing" part on the handle. Usually algerian fill it with a textured (repooussé work) silver plate, or something natural like ivory or tortoil shell. For this one the gard is in steel, but still having that "ring" shape.



May I ask you if I could use your picture/sword as an exemple for my book (and mentionning the owner, of course) ?

And if anyone knows the owner of the second ones, yatagan and nimcha with Iflissen scabbard, it would be so amazing !!

PS. Thanks a lot to all who helped me in that project, I'm really becoming to it like a common work, so thanks again for that !!

Probably worth pointing out that this rare saber unfortunately got destroyed and it's blade repurposed by its owner.

[fennec]

Originally Posted by werecow

Probably worth pointing out that this rare saber unfortunately got destroyed and it's blade repurposed by its owner.

"Destroyed".... I mean.... Okay... :confus::confus::confus:
I've heard that story recently, and my algerian hearth bleed... haha but no judgement, everyone is free to use his stuff how he want !
Thanks for the info !