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#1 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,361
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![]() Quote:
Thank you very much for this reply. As far as a Malay attribution, I believe there are Malay blades that have asang asang. Whether these are Malay blades repurposed by Moros, or Malay blades made for Malays that have asang asang, is unclear. See also here. As I look at what I believe to be Malay sundang blades, these tend to be straight and a little wider than most Moro sundang, and usually have a central groove that runs almost the length of the blade. Is that your experience also? I would reference the blade for item A-9 (in the panoply above, post #8) as being in the Malay style but perhaps of Moro manufacture. It has a central groove with a double-chevron, twist-core pattern, and an atypical gold (?) hilt, which appears to have been restricted to high nobility owners. There are pictures of Datu Piang and a Maguindanao Sultan having swords with similar hilts. Our fellow forumite, Battara, has another example with the same hilt style that he posted here a long time ago. I have not seen Malay sundang with classical sogokan or blumbangan, although longitudinal ridges and grooves starting adjacent to the gangya and running various lengths down the blade seem common. Looking at hilts on Malay sundang, I find them sometimes hard to distinguish from Sulu hilts. A small round ferrule, perhaps imitating a mendek, appears to be a consistent feature on Malay sundang, as well as a somewhat "fatter" grip section often bound with cord and sometimes segmented into three sections by raised metal rings. Most Malay sundang appear to be crowned by a simple kakatua pommel with side panels, with ivory being a common material. Please tell me if I am mistaken about any of these features. The picture you posted appears to be a Sulu or Maguindanao sundang showing twin lines below the concave edge of the gandik, and another pair of lines at the bottom end of the gangya (cocor). It is interesting that you note these styles present on 16-17th C Javanese keris. This helps, I think, in understanding why some of the so-called "archaic Moro kris" show these features fairly consistently. Could you post pictures of a 16-17th Javanese kris showing these lines below the gandik and on the gangya? Thanks David. Regards, Ian. Last edited by Ian; 1st August 2024 at 06:57 PM. |
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#2 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
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Sorry Ian, i had missed your question. Here are a couple of examples. I can add more when i find them.
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#3 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
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Here are examples of Indonesian kris sundang with asana-asang
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#4 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
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Here is one of mine. It is ivory, swassa, and silver. Not much of a pamor in the blade. I believe this is from Tawi-Tawi.
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#5 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,361
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#6 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
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Perhaps I'm missing something, but Malay and Indonesian sundang are virtually the same.
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#7 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,361
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I was referring to Melayu or other ethnicities/regions now considered part of Malaysia. Are you using "Malay" as a generic term for Malay people, defined broadly?
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#8 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
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Now that I think of it, I guess I mistakenly was using it as a broader term. I guess I need to do a better job of definition.
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