Keris Combong with markings

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2024, 10:58 PM

Oariff, Post #10

am I to respond logically & as a person who has more than a little knowledge of forge work, or am I to respond as a "True Believer" ?

milandro · 3rd June 2024, 08:11 AM

I don't know what to think about this spear (I hesitate to call it a tombak ), it was made yesterday and everything about it screams " made to look like something that would sell" .

I was watching another thread with a fantasy kris . I don't have anything against modern made krises but I see an increasing amount of fantasy pieces being sold lately , true the kris evolves now as it must have done in the past but the evolution is driven by the commerce.

On a related note.

Some time ago there was a Moro kris showing what is not a twist core but a thin layer of Damascus pattern applied to the central part of the blade. I was pretty shocked . I have noticed that on aliexpress they offer thin Damascus forged sheets of metal for not very much money. If I put two and two together I see that soon we are going to see such " inserts" ( I am not going to upload them since they are sold there but they are easy to find under Damascus metal)

oariff · 4th June 2024, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Oariff, Post #10

am I to respond logically & as a person who has more than a little knowledge of forge work, or am I to respond as a "True Believer" ?

Hi Alan,

Perhaps for this one - logically & as a person who probably has more hikmah (wisdom) and first hand experience of keris forge work than everyone else.

The complong in these two examples - Is it in your opinion, based on these images on a screen, intentional or unintentional? Or perhaps a bit of both. Are they even complong in the first place or just a hole in the blade. Of course, your opinion can change if you had the keris or spear/tombak in hand.

For a newbie like me, its about trying to figure out and understand the object that is in our collection. Origin, Technical/Specs, New or Old, Originals or Copy etc etc. Most important is what story does a particular object tell - and everybody will have their own version - reality/fantasy, right/wrong, etc etc.

Cheers.

A. G. Maisey · 4th June 2024, 10:13 PM

oariff

thank you for your compliment, but it is inaccurate, yes, I do have a good depth of knowledge in respect of forge work, but only insofar as it relates to the making of blades, nearly all other blacksmiths' abilities are not something I ever learnt, nor did I wish to learn.

about this tombak.

the maker had already sunk money into a ship that was never going to float, the work had a massive cold shut in it, he needed to at least try to cover his expenses so he did his best to make it saleable.

the end consumer of complex forge work never gets to know how many pieces fail during the process of making. If a man has a reputation, or is trying to build one, he never, ever lets the consumers of his work see the failures, and when a piece of work fails, well, that becomes a business overhead, rather than a successful sale, and that overhead becomes something that future sales must cover.

This is not unique to smiths in Madura, or Indonesia, or SE Asia, it has applied to smiths across the world & throughout history.

1st June 2024, 10:58 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Oariff, Post #10 am I to respond logically & as a person who has more than a little knowledge of forge work, or am I to respond as a "True Believer" ?

3rd June 2024, 08:11 AM	#2
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	I don't know what to think about this spear (I hesitate to call it a tombak ), it was made yesterday and everything about it screams " made to look like something that would sell" . I was watching another thread with a fantasy kris . I don't have anything against modern made krises but I see an increasing amount of fantasy pieces being sold lately , true the kris evolves now as it must have done in the past but the evolution is driven by the commerce. On a related note. Some time ago there was a Moro kris showing what is not a twist core but a thin layer of Damascus pattern applied to the central part of the blade. I was pretty shocked . I have noticed that on aliexpress they offer thin Damascus forged sheets of metal for not very much money. If I put two and two together I see that soon we are going to see such " inserts" ( I am not going to upload them since they are sold there but they are easy to find under Damascus metal)

4th June 2024, 10:13 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	oariff thank you for your compliment, but it is inaccurate, yes, I do have a good depth of knowledge in respect of forge work, but only insofar as it relates to the making of blades, nearly all other blacksmiths' abilities are not something I ever learnt, nor did I wish to learn. about this tombak. the maker had already sunk money into a ship that was never going to float, the work had a massive cold shut in it, he needed to at least try to cover his expenses so he did his best to make it saleable. the end consumer of complex forge work never gets to know how many pieces fail during the process of making. If a man has a reputation, or is trying to build one, he never, ever lets the consumers of his work see the failures, and when a piece of work fails, well, that becomes a business overhead, rather than a successful sale, and that overhead becomes something that future sales must cover. This is not unique to smiths in Madura, or Indonesia, or SE Asia, it has applied to smiths across the world & throughout history.