Bolo for commentary

milandro · 4th March 2023, 09:29 AM

cheers, it may certainly have been going through Borneo-Sarawak and then reaching some other Islands.

I though it was an interesting piece, the scabbard shows a very ornate weave which is what made me think that this couldn't have been the middle of the road soldier souvenir which we often see.

The closest blades that I found ( but not the same) were certain Malay Parang Bolos but they were missing this type of scabbard and the chiselled blade , also the hilt, while similar was rather different

kai · 4th March 2023, 10:52 PM

Hello André,

A pic of the full scabbard from both sides might be good. One would possibly need to get a real close look into it to check whether this really was made for this sword or is a later marriage with just a really nice fit.

From the pics, the scabbard is more recent Borneo - it certainly seems post-war. The carving is quite rough and the rattan braiding is typical for many Dayak groups and seen on even later examples.

The sword is from the central Sumatran highlands: possibly Mandailing (the area got devastated during the Padri turmoil and received lots of Minang influence during the 19th century; the later pieces originate from one of the main Sumatran blade manufacturing sites). Hilt and general style of this piece also seem to be post-WW2. Not a common type but some of these do crop up, especially in the Netherlands. (Not all of these have a cross guard. An older example is published in Steel and Magic: #13)

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 4th March 2023, 11:24 PM

Hi milandro,

Handsome looking item. I agree with kai, this is central Sumatran in origin and post-WWII in manufacture. Two questions, an observation, and another question.

Is the edge chisel-ground or V-ground, and is part of the back edge sharpened?

The down-turned quillion on the guard appears to reflect a Chinese influence. Kai, do we know whether Chinese settlers or merchants ventured as far inland as the central highlands of Sumatra?

Gavin Nugent · 4th March 2023, 11:29 PM

One of the guardless sub types from Sumatra, the others that utilize this guard are not on this PC, will see if I can find some examples.

A personally feel this entire piece of yours is a WWII + period weapon from Murat Sabah... guard a personal thing... the same elegant guard style can be seen on some of the rarer Sumatra Silat weapons and also in Vietnam... but they are typically attached to the pommel too, although examples can be found with the floating guard.

https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle...machete-making

kai · 5th March 2023, 02:17 AM

Hello Gavin,

Quote:

One of the guardless sub types from Sumatra

As evidenced by the sewar-like bolster, this is yet another family of blades from the same area. The blades do come in different shapes and also the hilts vary quite a bit!

Quote:

A personally feel this entire piece of yours is a WWII + period weapon from Murat Sabah...

Please explain (I don't see anything similar in the link you added). BTW, Sabah or Sarawak?

The swords we're discussing here are not from Borneo. Also note that the scabbard seems way too long for the blade.

Quote:

the same elegant guard style can be seen on some of the rarer Sumatra Silat weapons and also in Vietnam...

Visual references would be good, Gav.

Quote:

but they are typically attached to the pommel too, although examples can be found with the floating guard.

Yes, both guard variants can be found with this type of blade.

Here's a knife-size version from the same period as the one André showed (pic courtesy of Maurits).

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2023, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Please explain (I don't see anything similar in the link you added). BTW, Sabah or Sarawak?

The swords we're discussing here are not from Borneo. Also note that the scabbard seems way too long for the blade.

Visual references would be good, Gav.

Yes, both guard variants can be found with this type of blade.

Here's a knife-size version from the same period as the one André showed (pic courtesy of Maurits).

Regards,
Kai

Hi Kai,

A nice comparative example in all aspects, thank you.
The Mandailing origins look spot on for the type overall and with this one Michael presents with a guard http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5089

The image within the link is a modern generalization showing the use of metal guards in more modern Borneo production. ( And yes, Sarawak, "mental fart")

It would be nice to see the reverse of each blade... does the example you show have a chiseled edge blade?
I am not clear if Milandro is confirming his is a chisel edge blade? Seems alluded to rather than confirmed? Milandro?

Whilst I do now see these as ethnically the same visually, please bear with me please....I am not familiar with chiselled edge blades in Sumatra, that aspect seems more Northern Philippines/Borneo by nature as far as manufacture goes historically???

Gav

PS, I missed the post directly above whilst posting myself....

milandro · 5th March 2023, 08:33 AM

Thank you all for all the learned comments , I have much to learn about many things.

Let's start from the end, this is not a chisel edge blade (methinks) it is V edge blade , it isn't sharp now and I think it was never sharpened. The upper front edge is not sharpened too (and looks slightly different from the knife shown here which is otherwise the twin brother of my blade)

The scabbard is indeed longer than it need be, and could be a clever adaptation to fit the blade what makes me think this was made for this blade is the fact that the downward pointing part of the guard (the quilon I believe) fits nicely in a receptacle on top. Could be by chance but it is a very clever thing.

The pictures are from the seller and ( I don't know why) the system here uploads them and makes them less sharp than they are), my observation is that both the engraving en the braiding are finer in real that they are on pictures , also the blade looks considerably older from close by than it looks on the pictures ( probably due to refection).

I am not inferring that this isn't a post war weapon, I am rather convinced that it was acquired (1949) when the blade was new, but it is very probably (I believe the seller who was selling some weapons from his deceased father) a soldier's souvenir, as the majority of Indonesian blades we see in the NL, acquired at the time of the independence war.

kai · 5th March 2023, 02:45 AM

Hello Ian,

Quote:

Is the edge chisel-ground or V-ground, and is part of the back edge sharpened?

All examples I saw have symmetrical bevels (V grind). The back edge has a steep bevel that doesn't lend itself to sharpening, especially with the longer blades.

Quote:

The down-turned quillion on the guard appears to reflect a Chinese influence. Kai, do we know whether Chinese settlers or merchants ventured as far inland as the central highlands of Sumatra?

I can't recall any historic references. There has been enough and longstanding influence in the area for ideas to spread, anyway.

I'd assume that the trade to the coastal ports on both sides of Sumatra was done by the Minang though. At least the pre-colonial production seems to be by local artisans IMHO.

Regards,
Kai

milandro · 5th March 2023, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello André,

A pic of the full scabbard from both sides might be good. One would possibly need to get a real close look into it to check whether this really was made for this sword or is a later marriage with just a really nice fit.

From the pics, the scabbard is more recent Borneo - it certainly seems post-war. The carving is quite rough and the rattan braiding is typical for many Dayak groups and seen on even later examples.

The sword is from the central Sumatran highlands: possibly Mandailing (the area got devastated during the Padri turmoil and received lots of Minang influence during the 19th century; the later pieces originate from one of the main Sumatran blade manufacturing sites). Hilt and general style of this piece also seem to be post-WW2. Not a common type but some of these do crop up, especially in the Netherlands. (Not all of these have a cross guard. An older example is published in Steel and Magic: #13)

Regards,
Kai

Thanks Kai! your information gave me the possibility to search Mandailing Swords and I found another thread with almost identical swords (albeit even finer in quality than mine) no scabbard there.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5089

Searching further using this term I came across the term Piso Sanalenggam which looks different in terms of hilt and doesn't show engravings on the blade but the shape of the blade looks the same.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6928

Sajen · 6th March 2023, 10:44 PM

Hello André,

Nice old to vintage so called Mandailing klewang found its way in your collection and will look much nicer after a little bit of TLC.
Not much to add to what Kai already has said, scabbard doesn't belong to the sword and the blade shape resembles the piso sanalenggam you have pointed out seemingly already. No great surprise that the blade shape is similar since the Mandailing belong to the Batak ethnos.

Regards,
Detlef

milandro · 7th March 2023, 08:13 AM

Thank you Detlef , I am very happy about this blade.

What would you suggest to do and how in terms of TLC?

Sajen · 7th March 2023, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

Thank you Detlef , I am very happy about this blade.

What would you suggest to do and how in terms of TLC?

Hello André,

The handle I would polish with linseed oil, the wood looks very dry. The oil preserves the wood also for cracking. The wood will get a little bit darker but will look much better. The metal, blade, ferrule and guard I would rub with steel wool to remove the initial rust.
To conserve all you can add with a soft cloth antique wax.

Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 7th March 2023, 09:40 AM

PS: The scabbard is something for the spare part box, it doesn't belong to the sword.

4th March 2023, 10:52 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Definitely not Filipino Hello André, A pic of the full scabbard from both sides might be good. One would possibly need to get a real close look into it to check whether this really was made for this sword or is a later marriage with just a really nice fit. From the pics, the scabbard is more recent Borneo - it certainly seems post-war. The carving is quite rough and the rattan braiding is typical for many Dayak groups and seen on even later examples. The sword is from the central Sumatran highlands: possibly Mandailing (the area got devastated during the Padri turmoil and received lots of Minang influence during the 19th century; the later pieces originate from one of the main Sumatran blade manufacturing sites). Hilt and general style of this piece also seem to be post-WW2. Not a common type but some of these do crop up, especially in the Netherlands. (Not all of these have a cross guard. An older example is published in Steel and Magic: #13) Regards, Kai

4th March 2023, 11:29 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	One of the guardless sub types from Sumatra, the others that utilize this guard are not on this PC, will see if I can find some examples. A personally feel this entire piece of yours is a WWII + period weapon from Murat Sabah... guard a personal thing... the same elegant guard style can be seen on some of the rarer Sumatra Silat weapons and also in Vietnam... but they are typically attached to the pommel too, although examples can be found with the floating guard. https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle...machete-making Attached Images Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 4th March 2023 at 11:49 PM. Reason: images

5th March 2023, 08:33 AM	#7
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	Thank you all for all the learned comments , I have much to learn about many things. Let's start from the end, this is not a chisel edge blade (methinks) it is V edge blade , it isn't sharp now and I think it was never sharpened. The upper front edge is not sharpened too (and looks slightly different from the knife shown here which is otherwise the twin brother of my blade) The scabbard is indeed longer than it need be, and could be a clever adaptation to fit the blade what makes me think this was made for this blade is the fact that the downward pointing part of the guard (the quilon I believe) fits nicely in a receptacle on top. Could be by chance but it is a very clever thing. The pictures are from the seller and ( I don't know why) the system here uploads them and makes them less sharp than they are), my observation is that both the engraving en the braiding are finer in real that they are on pictures , also the blade looks considerably older from close by than it looks on the pictures ( probably due to refection). I am not inferring that this isn't a post war weapon, I am rather convinced that it was acquired (1949) when the blade was new, but it is very probably (I believe the seller who was selling some weapons from his deceased father) a soldier's souvenir, as the majority of Indonesian blades we see in the NL, acquired at the time of the independence war. Attached Images Last edited by milandro; 5th March 2023 at 09:29 AM. Reason: spelling due to automatic correction

4th March 2023, 09:29 AM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	cheers, it may certainly have been going through Borneo-Sarawak and then reaching some other Islands. I though it was an interesting piece, the scabbard shows a very ornate weave which is what made me think that this couldn't have been the middle of the road soldier souvenir which we often see. The closest blades that I found ( but not the same) were certain Malay Parang Bolos but they were missing this type of scabbard and the chiselled blade , also the hilt, while similar was rather different Attached Images

4th March 2023, 11:24 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi milandro, Handsome looking item. I agree with kai, this is central Sumatran in origin and post-WWII in manufacture. Two questions, an observation, and another question. Is the edge chisel-ground or V-ground, and is part of the back edge sharpened? The down-turned quillion on the guard appears to reflect a Chinese influence. Kai, do we know whether Chinese settlers or merchants ventured as far inland as the central highlands of Sumatra?

6th March 2023, 10:44 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello André, Nice old to vintage so called Mandailing klewang found its way in your collection and will look much nicer after a little bit of TLC. Not much to add to what Kai already has said, scabbard doesn't belong to the sword and the blade shape resembles the piso sanalenggam you have pointed out seemingly already. No great surprise that the blade shape is similar since the Mandailing belong to the Batak ethnos. Regards, Detlef

7th March 2023, 08:13 AM	#11
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	Thank you Detlef , I am very happy about this blade. What would you suggest to do and how in terms of TLC?

7th March 2023, 09:40 AM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	PS: The scabbard is something for the spare part box, it doesn't belong to the sword.