The Scythe as a weapon.

[urbanspaceman]

Hello Peter. Thank-you for this fascinating thread and thank-you even more for that peening video: I was transfixed.
The grass and weeds in my back garden would benefit from a good scything but will have to make do with a powered brush cutter.
However, it seems to me that the peening technique will make a good job of the edge on my garden machete; I am sure I can rig up a suitable anvil to practice with.
Incidentally: I didn't see anything about wheels... am I overlooking something?

On a separate note apropos of that double mention of my Shotley Bridge research: the book just keeps getting better and better as I continue to re-draft, amend and augment. One day I will have to stop. Up to date pdf versions are readily available... just ask.

[kronckew]

The khopesh appears to have evolved from the Epsilon Axe popular in the area at the time. Not from the sickle or scythe. Being ductile bronze, it (and the epsilon) was not used for chopping, but for slicing draw and push cuts. There was a 'chopping' version of the axe, the duckbill, that was designed for chopping, and the egyptian bronze penetrative axe was also.

[Jim McDougall]

Great observation Wayne, it does seem well established that many weapon forms did derive from various tools and utility implements. Pretty much anything can become a weapon of opportunity in the moment, but the dynamics of certain tools are obviously more suited for enhancement as weapons.

It is most interesting how little iron was available in ancient Egypt.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Great observation Wayne, it does seem well established that many weapon forms did derive from various tools and utility implements. Pretty much anything can become a weapon of opportunity in the moment, but the dynamics of certain tools are obviously more suited for enhancement as weapons.

It is most interesting how little iron was available in ancient Egypt.

Hello Jim and you point on iron is well taken. I noted that often the weapon was left unsharpened and this could have been that it was more of a badge of office as a Pharoah guard...
Regards, Peter.

[Peter Hudson]

The history of Scythes is well covered at http://scytheassociation.org/history/

[Peter Hudson]

In choosing where to search for where to look at how weapons developed from The Scythe and/or the Sickle it is worth noting from a key reference at http://scytheassociation.org/history/QUOTE"The scythe is a tool specially adapted for cutting vegetation at ground level. There is no other reason for its existence: it is useless at hand height and (unlike the machete) very unwieldy as a weapon. Initially it was probably designed for grass; but as pasture became harder to find, and livestock were increasingly fed on different kinds of straw, the importance of cutting oats, barley and other grains close to the ground became more important and the scythe began to replace the sickle as a way of harvesting crops. The scythe is therefore found in most areas of the world where grass and grains such as wheat, barley, oats or rye are the predominate agricultural crop. The scythe belt emanates from Europe and the Middle East, but extends from the Mid West of Canada and the US A, through the whole of Europe, much of Russia, the Middle East, Egypt and some other north African countries, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Kirghizstan and other colonies of the former USSR, a few parts of China and of the Indian subcontinent to Australia".UNQUOTE.

[Peter Hudson]

During the Kościuszko Uprising, Chrystian_Piotr_Aigner pictured below wrote "Krótka nauka o kosach i pikach" ("A Brief Treatise on Scythes and Pikes"), which provided a theory for operating on the field of battle with formations of scythemen and pikemen.[9]

[Peter Hudson]

Dear Kronckew,

Indeed it is the difficulty in knowing what a Scythe looked like in ancient times which makes how if at all it developed into a weapon... It is probable that a sickle form developed into a weapon although where and when and what these weapons were is a hard guess... Add to that the number of sword types as in the second picture on https://www.pinterest.co.uk/buzzpinard/swords/
As the search spreads out so do the permutations and many must be developments in a similar but quite unrelated forms such as at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karambit Add the Panabas to that situation seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panabas

Closer to home may be the creation we know as Yatagan... however my initial question was I hope more specific and which I hope I have indicated in and arround the Polish variants of purely battle pole arms in the pictures at thread. As a caveat to that I am interested in knowing what Austria has to do with the tool and or weapon? since the Scythe is often termed The Austrian Scythe....and did that come about from a Sword type or Scythe introduced from Ottoman concepts into Styria?
Regards,
Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Hello Peter. Thank-you for this fascinating thread and thank-you even more for that peening video: I was transfixed.
The grass and weeds in my back garden would benefit from a good scything but will have to make do with a powered brush cutter.
However, it seems to me that the peening technique will make a good job of the edge on my garden machete; I am sure I can rig up a suitable anvil to practice with.
Incidentally: I didn't see anything about wheels... am I overlooking something?

On a separate note apropos of that double mention of my Shotley Bridge research: the book just keeps getting better and better as I continue to re-draft, amend and augment. One day I will have to stop. Up to date pdf versions are readily available... just ask.

Dear Keith, Yes the wheel confusion was because at first sight the Jigs looked like small wheels...A good scythe sharpener could finish dozens of Scythes a day using these tools. It seemed to me that hollow grinding may have been related to this effect. Look up http://scytheassociation.org/history/ as a great reference on Scythes.

Regards Peter.