The Scythe as a weapon.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

[Teisani]

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Teisani

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

Dear Teisani,
Thank you very much for a set of brilliant references I just spent an hour looking at the fascinating studies ... Excellent!!!

Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a brilliant and as always, thorough, examination of the scythe and the weapons it inspired through history. Its an amazing and as seen here, complex topic as the etymology and use of the term of course seems to have been used in some variation such as referring to a deeply curved blade. Clearly the chief advantage of the inside curve is that the blade essentially grabs its target holding to it as it cuts.

The interesting and somewhat mysterious Black Sea 'yataghan' (pictured with burgundy scabbard) was in years before compared to the khopesh of ancient Egypt, which of course was a purely visual notion. It was also similar to an Assyrian sword with similar recurve. These 18th century swords were later determined to be Laz Bichagi from Transcaucasian regions and Anatolia.
I would note the Assyrian sword was shown in Burton (1884, p.208) as a 'sapara' and had a blade with inside curve. Other Assyrian weapons were hafted sickle types with deep curve as well.

Other modern versions of 'sickle' sword would be the shotel of Ethiopia of 19th century used into 20th. This deeply parabolic bladed sword was believed to facilitate reaching over or around a defending shield. (last image)

The 16th century German saber from Germany with sickle blade is most interesting and reminds me somewhat of art by Durer with similar dusagge type swords. The chain on the hilt is of interest and I hadnt realized this affectation was this early. It is of course well known on court and various European dress swords of late 17th through 18th c. and later.
The runic inscriptions are amazing!!!

Great note on the grinding wheels and these machines in the great Shotley Bridge mystery! the fascinating book by Keith revealing more on this subject as well as the complex intrigues of sword making in England in the17th into 18th century. Some of the most tenacious research I have ever seen.

[Peter Hudson]

Thanks Jim that is a great post and carries superb details and pictures adding depth to the theme ...Regards Peter Hudson.

I thought just to field a battle scene painted and showing Scythemen deploying for battle in Poland. Scythemen in 1831, led by Emilia Plater. Gouache by Jan Rosen

[urbanspaceman]

Hello Peter. Thank-you for this fascinating thread and thank-you even more for that peening video: I was transfixed.
The grass and weeds in my back garden would benefit from a good scything but will have to make do with a powered brush cutter.
However, it seems to me that the peening technique will make a good job of the edge on my garden machete; I am sure I can rig up a suitable anvil to practice with.
Incidentally: I didn't see anything about wheels... am I overlooking something?

On a separate note apropos of that double mention of my Shotley Bridge research: the book just keeps getting better and better as I continue to re-draft, amend and augment. One day I will have to stop. Up to date pdf versions are readily available... just ask.

[kronckew]

The khopesh appears to have evolved from the Epsilon Axe popular in the area at the time. Not from the sickle or scythe. Being ductile bronze, it (and the epsilon) was not used for chopping, but for slicing draw and push cuts. There was a 'chopping' version of the axe, the duckbill, that was designed for chopping, and the egyptian bronze penetrative axe was also.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Hello Peter. Thank-you for this fascinating thread and thank-you even more for that peening video: I was transfixed.
The grass and weeds in my back garden would benefit from a good scything but will have to make do with a powered brush cutter.
However, it seems to me that the peening technique will make a good job of the edge on my garden machete; I am sure I can rig up a suitable anvil to practice with.
Incidentally: I didn't see anything about wheels... am I overlooking something?

On a separate note apropos of that double mention of my Shotley Bridge research: the book just keeps getting better and better as I continue to re-draft, amend and augment. One day I will have to stop. Up to date pdf versions are readily available... just ask.

Dear Keith, Yes the wheel confusion was because at first sight the Jigs looked like small wheels...A good scythe sharpener could finish dozens of Scythes a day using these tools. It seemed to me that hollow grinding may have been related to this effect. Look up http://scytheassociation.org/history/ as a great reference on Scythes.

Regards Peter.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

Thank you for your post...Indeed I was completely amazed by these little gadgets making up the set of wheel jigs and the very basic technique that puts a razor edge on Scythes. This video went even further by using a aluminium rod to finally remove any burrs on the edge. This is a simple piece of easy to operate engineering that puts a superb edge on a Scythe ... and is really used on only one face of the blade. I would describe the edge as a hammered and pushed hollow edge.

My main interest in seeing this technique is related to Swords of Shotley Bridge and the conundrum of Hollow Blade production through a supposed 17th C tool brought there by a Swedish engineer/Industrial Spy... Reinhold Angerstein... but which largely seemed to be a fictional item until it was rediscovered by one of our Forum members and who wrote the book on Shotley Bridge Swords...SEE for example Swords of Shotley Bridge at Library by ...His Name on Forum is urbanspaceman.