The Scythe as a weapon.

[Peter Hudson]

and from Wikepedia for the next bit... Scythes may date back as far as c. 5000 BC; they seem to have been used since Cucuteni–Trypillia settlements, becoming widespread with agricultural developments.[citation needed] Initially used mostly for mowing hay, it had replaced the sickle for reaping crops by the 16th century, as the scythe was better ergonomically and consequently more efficient.[citation needed] In about 1800 the grain cradle was sometimes added to the standard scythe when mowing grain; the cradle was an addition of light wooden fingers above the scythe blade which kept the grain stems aligned and the heads together to make the collection and threshing easier. In the developed world, the scythe has been largely replaced by the motorised lawn mower and combine harvester. However, the scythe remained in common use for many years after the introduction of machines because a side-mounted finger-bar mower – whether horse- or tractor-drawn – could not mow in front of itself, and scythes were still needed to open up a meadow by clearing the first swathe to give the mechanical mower room to start.[citation needed]

The Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities of Sir William Smith argues that the scythe, known in Latin as the falx foenaria as opposed to the sickle, the falx messoria, was used by the ancient Romans.[citation needed] According to ancient Greek mythology, Gaia – the Greek goddess and mother of the Titans – gave a sickle made of the strongest metal to her youngest son Kronos, who is also the youngest of the Titans and god of the harvest, to seek vengeance against her husband Ouranos for torturing their eldest sons. The Grim Reaper is often depicted carrying or wielding a scythe. According to Jack Herer and Flesh of The Gods (Emboden, W. A. Jr., Praeger Press, New York, 1974), the ancient Scythians grew hemp and harvested it with a hand reaper that would be considered a scythe.[citation needed]

[Peter Hudson]

AND...Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythe_sword
QUOTE; Scythe sword
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The scythe sword of Thomas Müntzer and a representation of the "summer" half of its runic calendar.
The scythe sword (Sensenschwert) was a type of single-edged sword of the German Renaissance, related to the Dussack. It consisted of the blade of a scythe to which a sword hilt was attached. Like the falx or falcata of antiquity, it was thus a curved sword with the cutting edge on the inside (as opposed to the scimitar or sabre type with the edge on the outside).

The only known surviving example of a true scythe sword (its blade being made from an actual scythe), is that of Thomas Müntzer (1489–1525), kept in the Historical Museum, Dresden. This sword has a representation of a runic calendar incised on the blade. Demmin (1893) notes the existence of other sword blades of the early 16th century bearing runic calendars in Berlin, Vienna, Paris, Munich, Graz and Luxembourg. SEE below ....

It is possible that “scythe sword” may refer to the Thracian romphaia (Greek: ῥομφαία), most commonly a long curved blade with its[1] cutting edge on the concave or inside edge with a piercing point, attached to a pole (wood handle) that's shorter than the blade.

The Thracian romphaia is often compared to a Dacian falx, a longer version of a romphaia.

The romphaia was a close-combat bladed weapon used by the Thracians as early as 350-400 BC.

The two-handed falx is clearly related to the Thracian rhomphaia. It is a derivative of both the sword and the spear, used by the Dacians.

Both the romphaia and dax weapons were made in one hand and two handed versions. Most surviving examples suggest the smaller shorter “one hand” type actually would have been “hand and a half”, where the second hand was used more as a lever to make strokes, thrusts, recoveries and angle of attack changes more rapid and fluid.

So, “scythe sword” could refer to a romphaia, or dax possibly.

[Peter Hudson]

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

[Peter Hudson]

Khopesh.

This bronze khopesh, or sickle-sword, was found near Jerusalem and dates to the Late Bronze Age, circa 1500 B.C. The sword is sharpened on the outer edge of the curved portion of the blade. The khopesh originated in Egypt and was one of the signature weapons of Egyptian troops during the Middle and New Kingdom periods.

[Peter Hudson]

Dacian Falx.

[Teisani]

I wouldn't lump the kopesh with scythe-like weapons (like the falx) since one has the edge on the outer, the other on the inner. Not to mention very different cultures/geography/period.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Teisani

I wouldn't lump the kopesh with scythe-like weapons (like the falx) since one has the edge on the outer, the other on the inner. Not to mention very different cultures/geography/period.

Yes I agree however, The Kopesh does have another name...The Sickle Sword ...thus it gets in to the general picture. To get the full view of weapons down the ages it is fair to view early development in a variety of regions to consider the Scythe architecture development if any...I think my #3 defines where I may look regarding weapon developments on Scythe shaped blades and that does include Anciant Roman / Egyptian or other countries variants used or met on the battlefield.

One peculiar Scythe that I viewed on my Scythe course was a very sharp almost 4 foot bladed Flambouyant edged item that regrettably I didnt get a chance to photograph ...

It begins to be clear to me that to get a more useful weapon needed some thought to the hilt, handle or Haft fitted to the blade and what if any other attachments would enhance the item like a spear tip or hook to make it viable against cavalry? ... I think that is apparent in my first picture of this thread and a further group of Polish cmbatants that is about to show...see next post please. .

Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

A word on RHOMPHAIA and fromhttps://periklisdeligiannis.wordpres...man-rhomphaia/I QUOTE"Modern researchers of medieval military history often wonder what was the nature of the Byzantine weapon called ‘rhomphaia’? The rhomphaia (or rhomphaea) of Antiquity was a weapon of the Thracians, which consisted of a long straight or slightly curved sickle-shaped blade mounted on a long wooden shaft. If the rhomphaia was sickle-shaped, the cutting edge was located on the inner (concave) side of the blade. Specifically the curved rhomphaia belonged to the group of spears and swords with scythe blade which included the kopis, the machaira, the falcata, the falx and others which were used by various peoples of the ancient Mediterranean that is to say the Iberians, Celtiberians, Greeks, Thracians, Etruscans, Lycians, Carians, Lydians, Phrygians, Dacians and others. Their original source is unknown and sometimes the researchers try to locate it. Our opinion is that they are products of polygenesis".UNQUOTE.

https://periklisdeligiannis.wordpres...m-experiments/
RHOMPHAIA excavated below left and a reproduction at right.;

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

[Teisani]

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Teisani

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

Dear Teisani,
Thank you very much for a set of brilliant references I just spent an hour looking at the fascinating studies ... Excellent!!!

Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a brilliant and as always, thorough, examination of the scythe and the weapons it inspired through history. Its an amazing and as seen here, complex topic as the etymology and use of the term of course seems to have been used in some variation such as referring to a deeply curved blade. Clearly the chief advantage of the inside curve is that the blade essentially grabs its target holding to it as it cuts.

The interesting and somewhat mysterious Black Sea 'yataghan' (pictured with burgundy scabbard) was in years before compared to the khopesh of ancient Egypt, which of course was a purely visual notion. It was also similar to an Assyrian sword with similar recurve. These 18th century swords were later determined to be Laz Bichagi from Transcaucasian regions and Anatolia.
I would note the Assyrian sword was shown in Burton (1884, p.208) as a 'sapara' and had a blade with inside curve. Other Assyrian weapons were hafted sickle types with deep curve as well.

Other modern versions of 'sickle' sword would be the shotel of Ethiopia of 19th century used into 20th. This deeply parabolic bladed sword was believed to facilitate reaching over or around a defending shield. (last image)

The 16th century German saber from Germany with sickle blade is most interesting and reminds me somewhat of art by Durer with similar dusagge type swords. The chain on the hilt is of interest and I hadnt realized this affectation was this early. It is of course well known on court and various European dress swords of late 17th through 18th c. and later.
The runic inscriptions are amazing!!!

Great note on the grinding wheels and these machines in the great Shotley Bridge mystery! the fascinating book by Keith revealing more on this subject as well as the complex intrigues of sword making in England in the17th into 18th century. Some of the most tenacious research I have ever seen.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

Thank you for your post...Indeed I was completely amazed by these little gadgets making up the set of wheel jigs and the very basic technique that puts a razor edge on Scythes. This video went even further by using a aluminium rod to finally remove any burrs on the edge. This is a simple piece of easy to operate engineering that puts a superb edge on a Scythe ... and is really used on only one face of the blade. I would describe the edge as a hammered and pushed hollow edge.

My main interest in seeing this technique is related to Swords of Shotley Bridge and the conundrum of Hollow Blade production through a supposed 17th C tool brought there by a Swedish engineer/Industrial Spy... Reinhold Angerstein... but which largely seemed to be a fictional item until it was rediscovered by one of our Forum members and who wrote the book on Shotley Bridge Swords...SEE for example Swords of Shotley Bridge at Library by ...His Name on Forum is urbanspaceman.