African (?) knife

drac2k · 13th January 2022, 06:10 AM

Hello Yvain,
The knife that you referenced belongs to me and is almost an exact match, except mine, is larger, almost a sword. The craftsmanship is excellent, and the scabbard is almost identical except that it doesn't have the loops, however, this could be due to the poor condition of my sheath and they may have fallen off. The scabbard is leather, with a burlap-type cloth insert as is yours; there isn't any evidence that it had a wooden lining.
The pommel has a minaret tower look to it which would indicate its Islamic influence and since the Mandingo People are 99% Muslim, this certainly wouldn't detract from its attribution to these people.
I found this weapon to be well made, sturdy and I would guess a very efficient fighting knife.

Sajen · 13th January 2022, 07:15 AM

Yvain,

The knife is a Chinese dagger, often called pirate dagger.

Yvain · 13th January 2022, 09:41 AM

Wow that's amazing Drac2k!

I didn't expect the actual owner of it to show up! Do you happen to have better pictures of it, and would you mind sharing them here? Do you have any additional information about its provenance?

David R · 13th January 2022, 11:48 AM

I would not make any judgements based on a scabbard, dealers have a habit of mix and match.

I was once offered a really nice small Dha, in a steel bayonet scabbard, and I asked if he had the original that came with it. He did, and so I bought the piece.... he had swapped scabbards because he thought the steel bayonet scabbard made it more saleable.

Yvain · 13th January 2022, 12:06 PM

David,

While I definitely agree with you on the principle, I think that it might be more significant in this case, since the sheath fits the knife perfectly (even following the shape of the blade), and, more importantly, since at least one other example (Drac2k's sword) displays a similar sheath. More pictures of Drac2k's sword would certainly allow us to learn more on the subject.

drac2k · 13th January 2022, 04:03 PM

Sure thing. While all things are possible, my bet is on African; also the scabbard fits perfectly(what is left of it).

Yvain · 13th January 2022, 07:35 PM

Thank you very much for the pictures Drac2k ! It's truly amazing how similar they are, did a quick and dirty comparison between the two. How long is the sword approximately ?

Regarding the sheath, it definitely looks African (Mandingo ?) to me, and I'm starting to doubt that two very similar faca de ponta somehow ending up in African sheaths is a coincidence. I definitely need do to more research !

Ren Ren · 13th January 2022, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yvain,

The knife is a Chinese dagger, often called pirate dagger.

I agree, this is a pirate dagger from the Vietnam-China border. The Chinese attribute these items to the Zhuang people, and the Vietnamese to the Nung people.

13th January 2022, 07:15 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,417	Yvain, The knife is a Chinese dagger, often called pirate dagger. Attached Images

13th January 2022, 04:03 PM	#6
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,294	Sure thing. While all things are possible, my bet is on African; also the scabbard fits perfectly(what is left of it). Attached Images

13th January 2022, 07:35 PM	#7
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 181	Thank you very much for the pictures Drac2k ! It's truly amazing how similar they are, did a quick and dirty comparison between the two. How long is the sword approximately ? Regarding the sheath, it definitely looks African (Mandingo ?) to me, and I'm starting to doubt that two very similar faca de ponta somehow ending up in African sheaths is a coincidence. I definitely need do to more research ! Attached Images

13th January 2022, 06:10 AM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,294	Hello Yvain, The knife that you referenced belongs to me and is almost an exact match, except mine, is larger, almost a sword. The craftsmanship is excellent, and the scabbard is almost identical except that it doesn't have the loops, however, this could be due to the poor condition of my sheath and they may have fallen off. The scabbard is leather, with a burlap-type cloth insert as is yours; there isn't any evidence that it had a wooden lining. The pommel has a minaret tower look to it which would indicate its Islamic influence and since the Mandingo People are 99% Muslim, this certainly wouldn't detract from its attribution to these people. I found this weapon to be well made, sturdy and I would guess a very efficient fighting knife.

13th January 2022, 09:41 AM	#3
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 181	Wow that's amazing Drac2k! I didn't expect the actual owner of it to show up! Do you happen to have better pictures of it, and would you mind sharing them here? Do you have any additional information about its provenance?

13th January 2022, 11:48 AM	#4
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,136	I would not make any judgements based on a scabbard, dealers have a habit of mix and match. I was once offered a really nice small Dha, in a steel bayonet scabbard, and I asked if he had the original that came with it. He did, and so I bought the piece.... he had swapped scabbards because he thought the steel bayonet scabbard made it more saleable.

13th January 2022, 12:06 PM	#5
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 181	David, While I definitely agree with you on the principle, I think that it might be more significant in this case, since the sheath fits the knife perfectly (even following the shape of the blade), and, more importantly, since at least one other example (Drac2k's sword) displays a similar sheath. More pictures of Drac2k's sword would certainly allow us to learn more on the subject.