African (?) knife

[Yvain]

Well, while searching for similar sheaths to make some comparisons, I did found something very interesting, namely the first picture below. Sadly, I wasn't able to find its source or anymore information about it besides the file name ("mandingo short sword old african dagger antique knife"), but I think this is still a very interesting find for several reasons.


First, and even without seeing the blade, it is a way closer match to my knife than any faca de ponta I've seen before : the handle is very similar in shape, seems to be entirely made out of bronze/brass, and with the same central turned, dark wood insert ; at first I even thought it was an old picture of my knife before noticing some slight differences. Second very interesting point : the sheath, which is also in a very distinctive african fashion, similar to what can be seen on some Mandingo/Malian knives.


It's not much, but it is definitely adding weight to Tim Simmons theory, and I would love if he could tell me more about it.


Kronckew :


This lot was sold by a private seller, not a dealer, and considering the comparable state of all of the knives, I'm led to believe that the lot wasn't created yesterday, but I might be wrong. Regarding the sheath, I don't think the loops were added later : the leather is similar to what was used on the rest of the sheath and shows similar wear, it is also a very common fastening method on african knives (see examples below) ; also, the embroidered motives made out of thin leather strips reminds me of what can be found on some Mandingo knives sheaths.


Detlef :

I also have a picture with the knives out of their sheaths, but I don't think the knife to the right of mine is a faca de ponta.




Anyway, thanks a lot to all of you for your help and suggestions, this is very interesting !

[drac2k]

Hello Yvain,
The knife that you referenced belongs to me and is almost an exact match, except mine, is larger, almost a sword. The craftsmanship is excellent, and the scabbard is almost identical except that it doesn't have the loops, however, this could be due to the poor condition of my sheath and they may have fallen off. The scabbard is leather, with a burlap-type cloth insert as is yours; there isn't any evidence that it had a wooden lining.
The pommel has a minaret tower look to it which would indicate its Islamic influence and since the Mandingo People are 99% Muslim, this certainly wouldn't detract from its attribution to these people.
I found this weapon to be well made, sturdy and I would guess a very efficient fighting knife.

[Sajen]

Yvain,

The knife is a Chinese dagger, often called pirate dagger.

[Yvain]

Wow that's amazing Drac2k!



I didn't expect the actual owner of it to show up! Do you happen to have better pictures of it, and would you mind sharing them here? Do you have any additional information about its provenance?

[David R]

I would not make any judgements based on a scabbard, dealers have a habit of mix and match.

I was once offered a really nice small Dha, in a steel bayonet scabbard, and I asked if he had the original that came with it. He did, and so I bought the piece.... he had swapped scabbards because he thought the steel bayonet scabbard made it more saleable.

[Yvain]

David,



While I definitely agree with you on the principle, I think that it might be more significant in this case, since the sheath fits the knife perfectly (even following the shape of the blade), and, more importantly, since at least one other example (Drac2k's sword) displays a similar sheath. More pictures of Drac2k's sword would certainly allow us to learn more on the subject.

[drac2k]

Sure thing. While all things are possible, my bet is on African; also the scabbard fits perfectly(what is left of it).

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yvain,

The knife is a Chinese dagger, often called pirate dagger.

I agree, this is a pirate dagger from the Vietnam-China border. The Chinese attribute these items to the Zhuang people, and the Vietnamese to the Nung people.