Identify a Keris

A. G. Maisey · 16th November 2021, 07:09 AM

Jaga, this is a big question, principally because it involves going back into the past and restating things that as far as I can see have largely been forgotten.

The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker, but there are other principles tied into the character of the keris that Jawa under Islam has forgotten in detail but remembers in principle in that respect must be given.

If we wish to adopt a way in which to differentiate between the keris made as an item of trade, or dress, or a weapon, and a keris that has been made with spiritual content, then the easy way is to simply look for an old keris that bears the hallmarks of manufacture by a master craftsman, an empu. Such a keris might have been made with spiritual content. But then again it might not have been. One thing is believed to be certain, and that is that an ordinary trade, dress or weapon keris made by an ordinary smith cannot have been made with spiritual content, simply because such a maker would not have known the mantras.

In my "Interpretation" article I did touch on this idea of the keris as shrine, but that was in the context of Old Jawa and of Bali.

Essentially we are considering elements of ancestor worship. Where a keris has been made as pusaka it has been made with the intent that when called upon the ancestors can visit the custodian of that keris and through him reach the present day kin group.

But then a similar idea can exist where a keris has been dedicated to a particular deity. The visitor, ancestor or deity is not present all the time, but the keris is held in readiness for such a visit. During those times when the keris is empty it must be guarded against becoming occupied by an unwanted, perhaps evil or malicious entity, and that is the purpose of the hilt figure.

jagabuwana · 30th November 2021, 04:06 AM

I might have to get into the weeds abit here so that I can better understand the moving parts. Please excuse what might be pedantic.

The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker

Do you mean respect for the maker of the keris, by its current custodian or owner?
I suppose then this also means respect for all who have taken care of this keris ever since it was made, and the families and groups that it has bound together.

One thing is believed to be certain, and that is that an ordinary trade, dress or weapon keris made by an ordinary smith cannot have been made with spiritual content, simply because such a maker would not have known the mantras.

Yes that makes sense, and is a reminder that an empu is very different to a pandai keris, and that the empu was a person who through his works was able to create a conduit for the unseen in ways that are legitimate and potent to a Javanese person.

~~

The original question was "in the Javanese belief system, what would make a keris worthy or eligible of being visited?" (emphasis added).

What if we were to remove that part of the question?

Could a keris have spiritual content or the potential for it, if it was to be made in a way that does not include all the Javanese belief system's particulars such as the right mantras?

I ask this question to Alan and others, but will attempt to elaborate and answer it myself to add to the discussion.

It makes sense that there are particularities that go into any artefact, product or outcome born from a belief system. Islam, for example, has many prayers and supplications for very specific things. Whatever it is that one needs to do in life, one can find in Islamic texts the right supplication to God. The specific utterances vary but invariably they are either praises to God or the Prophet, permission-seeking from God or protection-seeking from God.

No scholar of Islam would ever argue that your own words, with the right intent, directed to God would fall on deaf ears, but I guess the existence of specific prayers and supplications are a way of reaching God in a way that is deemed to be more refined. And refinement of the individual is probably the whole point of prescribed prayer and practices.

The point here is that mantras and prayers alike, specific ones as prescribed from a legitimate place in any belief system, matter.

But to who do they matter?

To continue with the Islam example, I would say that they mean less to God than they do to us. They are for humanity's sake, not for God's. But what about in the Javanese believe system where there are gods (including plenty enough room for the unitary, Abrahamic god), but ancestors, demons, animal spirits, nature spirits and so on? Do they need to hear those very specific words uttered with the right intents before they can do what they are called upon to do, like a password that only the initiated have? (I apologise in advance if that question comes off as crass. That isn't my intention).

There are many more questions and digressions I could add but it would all just be arriving at a final question, which is a metaphysical question within which the keris can be situated but stands on its own.

And that is:- how much of the unseen, and our relationship with it, can be accessed in a way that is unmediated by particulars, but in a way that is universal?

To bring that back to the keris:- suppose it is true that the ancestors can be honoured or worshipped, god can be honoured or worshipped, unseen beings can be offered to, by anyone in any way that is respectful, dignified and with sincere intent.
What does this mean for the keris when situated outside of its mother culture, belief system and practice? Can it still objectively (for lack of a better term) or truly be a spiritual object to the person with those beliefs who holds that keris? Or can a smith who is, say, an Aboriginal Australian shaman forge a keris and have it be a spiritual object?

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2021, 09:38 PM

Jaga, you have, I think, provided a platform for discussion, rather than a straightforward, simple question that can be met with a straightforward simple answer.

Further, that platform is loaded.

I could dive headlong into this and in the process antagonise & offend a lot of people.

I'd sooner not do this.

I'm going to assume that you have read this:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/inter...e-keris-page-1

and that you understand what I have written and do not wish to debate anything in this article that has a bearing on your thoughts in respect of the matters you wish to address.

I would also like you to go here:-

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...Maisey&f=false

and read the content of Chapter 6, this has not yet been published, but is scheduled for publication in the USA on 1st. December 2021

In this chapter I have touched on what happened with the Javanese keris after Islam decided that in order to facilitate the replacement of Hindu-Javanese culture with Islamic culture, one of the things that Islam needed to deal with was to change the nature of the keris in Javanese society.

If what I have written in both of these pieces of writing is insufficient for you to form your own opinions in respect of this matter, perhaps you might care to break your enquiries down into simple direct questions that can be addressed in less than 5000 words.

I actually started to write a response to your post last night, but after about 1200 words, I decided that I could not do justice in a public Forum based discussion to the ideas you have formulated.

Break those ideas down into a format that an educated 8 year old child can understand and put them before us one idea at a time, and I think we might have something that has the potential to teach all of us, something of value.

The "8 year old child" idea was given to me many years ago by a well known Australian journalist, I was advised to always try my best to never write anything for public consumption that an 8 year old child could not easily understand. I think this was very good advice, I do not always succeed , but I do try to follow it.

So, I'd like to put the hard stuff that you have set before us, off to one side for the moment.

But you have also asked a couple of uncomplicated things, so I'll try to get rid of those.

You have asked:-

"--- The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker ---

---Do you mean respect for the maker of the keris, by its current custodian or owner?
I suppose then this also means respect for all who have taken care of this keris ever since it was made, and the families and groups that it has bound together. --- "

For Empu Suparman the respect was limited to only the maker

As you have noted, all keris are not equal. The role of the keris as a link between the perceived world and the hidden world is really only applicable to the pusaka keris of a kin group. In Balinese culture this facet of keris culture is still alive, in Javanese culture the link to ancestors seems to have been considerably watered down. I feel that within some kin groups the acceptance of this link might still be real, in other kin groups I believe this aspect of the keris, both as pusaka and as link to the hidden world has been lost.

I think that as a general principle at the present time, the broad acceptance of the keris as a personal piyandel (a talisman, belief, reliance), is perhaps a more accurate placement in Javanese society of the keris. There is still that connection with the unseen, the esoteric, but not to the same extent, nor in the same way as is the case in Bali. Probably in rural areas, where people are still closer to animism & ancestor worship, the original nature of the keris has stronger recognition than in the Islamised urban setting.

Pauzan Pusposukadgo was one of the first, and one of the most talented keris makers of the modern age. He was also a devout Muslim. He was regarded as an empu keris by the general populace and within Surakarta Karaton society, but he refused to use the title Empu, preferring to style himself as "Pandai Seni Keris".

It was his firm belief that only a person who could bring life to a keris could call himself an Empu Keris. He was a Muslim, a very devout follower of Islam, and for him it was absolutely unthinkable that a human being could bring life into anything. This idea alone was sacrilege, as only God can give life.

So for Pauzan, good, solid Muslim that he was, it was a pretence of Man that anybody with the supposed powers that were attributed to the Empu, could ever have existed.

Nothing made by Man can be greater than Man, and only God can give life.

But on the other side of the page we have the ideas and beliefs of Sufic Islam, which the Javanese adherents of Javanese indigenous belief systems found to be quite acceptable and close to their own beliefs.

Thus, when we consider the entire, convoluted morass of keris belief, what we are left with is a web of interwoven belief systems, and for any true believer in anything, what he believes is indeed true for him. It is all a matter of perception and perspective.

One belief is that a keris, like a shrine, is created empty, but it can be visited by a spiritual entity. So then, perhaps we need to ask if it is legitimate for any lay person to create a shrine, or perhaps further, if something that was not created as a shrine can in time become one. This question again becomes one that is open to belief.

Jaga, if my short response is insufficient for you to be able to find your own answers, I am happy to continue, but only on a step by step basis.

David · 30th November 2021, 10:57 PM

Alan, thank you for taking the time to attempt to approach, at least in part, Jag's difficult questions, and Jag, thanks for asking them in the first place. At first i too wondered whether this forum was the place to even attempt to approach these subjects, buy your response, though of course not all encompassing, should be immensely helpful for anyone who has been ruminating upon these subjects, even an eight year old.

Also great thanks for the link to your chapter in this upcoming book. If the other writers involved have offered chapters even half as well written as what you have contributed to the subject of the personal object i believe it would be well worth acquiring.

A. G. Maisey · 1st December 2021, 04:17 AM

Thank you for your compliments David.

I have not yet read all of the contributions to this book, I have read a couple, and it does seem to me that there is some worthwhile & thought provoking writing between its covers.

It has been a very long time in production. It has been driven by a group of philosophers, so I suppose we should expect to meet with some ideas that might be considered to be brain-food.

Actually, I rather enjoy the questions & comments that our Guardian of the Universe posts to our Forum. Jaga has managed to get a firm grasp of the dimensions of the keris that most people fail to acknowledge, if indeed they are even aware that such dimensions even exist.

jagabuwana · 1st December 2021, 06:52 AM

Hahaha... I was wondering when the Guardian of the Universe thing would come up. It's so pompous.

I hate to disappoint you all, but neither my appearance or how I think of myself is consistent with the name I use on the forum. But it does have a story, not for sharing in a public forum. Maybe one day when we can do the inaugural Keris Warung Kopi conference, and shoot the breeze in person. I'm sure we can pull some strings to get a grant so that we have funds for a very fancy venue. That way I might even be able to tell them to call me Jagabuwana without them laughing (as they should), before I request valet service for my 2005 Mazda 3

But in all seriousness, thank you Alan for taking the time to answer my question and point me in the right direction. Funnily enough I came across the forthcoming article you shared me shortly before my brain dump. I skimmed it but also earmarked it for closer reading. I'll be sure to digest what you've written and take your suggestions before I ask any further questions.

David, thank you also. Yes I think eventually every keris student ponders its spiritual aspects. I hope even though this discussion forayed into more general spirituality and metaphysics, that it can have a place in this forum for better understanding the keris.

A. G. Maisey · 1st December 2021, 07:34 AM

I think more than a few people cottoned on to your elegant little non-de-plume Jaga, I remember thinking that maybe you were one of the Surakarta princes in disguise.

Pomposity did not cross my mind for an instant.

But a 2005 vehicle is nothing to skite about.

My Sunday-go-to-meeting vehicle is a 1971 Landcruiser.

Interested Party · 2nd December 2021, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jaga, you have, I think, provided a platform for discussion

Thus, when we consider the entire, convoluted morass of keris belief, what we are left with is a web of interwoven belief systems, and for any true believer in anything, what he believes is indeed true for him. It is all a matter of perception and perspective.

One belief is that a keris, like a shrine, is created empty, but it can be visited by a spiritual entity. So then, perhaps we need to ask if it is legitimate for any lay person to create a shrine, or perhaps further, if something that was not created as a shrine can in time become one. This question again becomes one that is open to belief.

Jaga, if my short response is insufficient for you to be able to find your own answers, I am happy to continue, but only on a step by step basis.

It seems we are entering a nature vs nurture discussion with all answers filtered through the lens of worldview and experience. Although, if I am correct, the question is "what is the Javanese perspective?"

This topic makes me wonder if I am rather simple.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd December 2021, 07:40 PM

IP, there is no single Javanese perspective.

My own perspective is very strongly influenced by a number of Javanese perspectives, but it has also been influenced by some Balinese perspectives.It would be fair to say that when I say "my perspective" this is an incorrect statement, because I really do not have a single way of considering the keris.

The other thing that we need to consider is this:-

time alters perspective

so when we start to consider perspectives we need to consider each perspective relative to the window of time through which we are looking.

When we scratch below the surface , the surface that can be seen by everybody, we find that the nature of the keris is an exceptionally complex matter.

Probably a useable way to come to some sort of an understanding of the keris is to use a three dimensional matrixical approach. We could construct such a matrix by having places across the top, times running down one side, then running back into the third dimension, an analysis of the variations on the entry to two dimensional box.

30th November 2021, 04:06 AM	#2
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	I might have to get into the weeds abit here so that I can better understand the moving parts. Please excuse what might be pedantic. The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker Do you mean respect for the maker of the keris, by its current custodian or owner? I suppose then this also means respect for all who have taken care of this keris ever since it was made, and the families and groups that it has bound together. One thing is believed to be certain, and that is that an ordinary trade, dress or weapon keris made by an ordinary smith cannot have been made with spiritual content, simply because such a maker would not have known the mantras. Yes that makes sense, and is a reminder that an empu is very different to a pandai keris, and that the empu was a person who through his works was able to create a conduit for the unseen in ways that are legitimate and potent to a Javanese person. ~~ The original question was "in the Javanese belief system, what would make a keris worthy or eligible of being visited?" (emphasis added). What if we were to remove that part of the question? Could a keris have spiritual content or the potential for it, if it was to be made in a way that does not include all the Javanese belief system's particulars such as the right mantras? I ask this question to Alan and others, but will attempt to elaborate and answer it myself to add to the discussion. It makes sense that there are particularities that go into any artefact, product or outcome born from a belief system. Islam, for example, has many prayers and supplications for very specific things. Whatever it is that one needs to do in life, one can find in Islamic texts the right supplication to God. The specific utterances vary but invariably they are either praises to God or the Prophet, permission-seeking from God or protection-seeking from God. No scholar of Islam would ever argue that your own words, with the right intent, directed to God would fall on deaf ears, but I guess the existence of specific prayers and supplications are a way of reaching God in a way that is deemed to be more refined. And refinement of the individual is probably the whole point of prescribed prayer and practices. The point here is that mantras and prayers alike, specific ones as prescribed from a legitimate place in any belief system, matter. But to who do they matter? To continue with the Islam example, I would say that they mean less to God than they do to us. They are for humanity's sake, not for God's. But what about in the Javanese believe system where there are gods (including plenty enough room for the unitary, Abrahamic god), but ancestors, demons, animal spirits, nature spirits and so on? Do they need to hear those very specific words uttered with the right intents before they can do what they are called upon to do, like a password that only the initiated have? (I apologise in advance if that question comes off as crass. That isn't my intention). There are many more questions and digressions I could add but it would all just be arriving at a final question, which is a metaphysical question within which the keris can be situated but stands on its own. And that is:- how much of the unseen, and our relationship with it, can be accessed in a way that is unmediated by particulars, but in a way that is universal? To bring that back to the keris:- suppose it is true that the ancestors can be honoured or worshipped, god can be honoured or worshipped, unseen beings can be offered to, by anyone in any way that is respectful, dignified and with sincere intent. What does this mean for the keris when situated outside of its mother culture, belief system and practice? Can it still objectively (for lack of a better term) or truly be a spiritual object to the person with those beliefs who holds that keris? Or can a smith who is, say, an Aboriginal Australian shaman forge a keris and have it be a spiritual object? Last edited by jagabuwana; 30th November 2021 at 04:19 AM.

16th November 2021, 07:09 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Jaga, this is a big question, principally because it involves going back into the past and restating things that as far as I can see have largely been forgotten. The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker, but there are other principles tied into the character of the keris that Jawa under Islam has forgotten in detail but remembers in principle in that respect must be given. If we wish to adopt a way in which to differentiate between the keris made as an item of trade, or dress, or a weapon, and a keris that has been made with spiritual content, then the easy way is to simply look for an old keris that bears the hallmarks of manufacture by a master craftsman, an empu. Such a keris might have been made with spiritual content. But then again it might not have been. One thing is believed to be certain, and that is that an ordinary trade, dress or weapon keris made by an ordinary smith cannot have been made with spiritual content, simply because such a maker would not have known the mantras. In my "Interpretation" article I did touch on this idea of the keris as shrine, but that was in the context of Old Jawa and of Bali. Essentially we are considering elements of ancestor worship. Where a keris has been made as pusaka it has been made with the intent that when called upon the ancestors can visit the custodian of that keris and through him reach the present day kin group. But then a similar idea can exist where a keris has been dedicated to a particular deity. The visitor, ancestor or deity is not present all the time, but the keris is held in readiness for such a visit. During those times when the keris is empty it must be guarded against becoming occupied by an unwanted, perhaps evil or malicious entity, and that is the purpose of the hilt figure.

30th November 2021, 09:38 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Jaga, you have, I think, provided a platform for discussion, rather than a straightforward, simple question that can be met with a straightforward simple answer. Further, that platform is loaded. I could dive headlong into this and in the process antagonise & offend a lot of people. I'd sooner not do this. I'm going to assume that you have read this:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/inter...e-keris-page-1 and that you understand what I have written and do not wish to debate anything in this article that has a bearing on your thoughts in respect of the matters you wish to address. I would also like you to go here:- https://books.google.com.au/books?id...Maisey&f=false and read the content of Chapter 6, this has not yet been published, but is scheduled for publication in the USA on 1st. December 2021 In this chapter I have touched on what happened with the Javanese keris after Islam decided that in order to facilitate the replacement of Hindu-Javanese culture with Islamic culture, one of the things that Islam needed to deal with was to change the nature of the keris in Javanese society. If what I have written in both of these pieces of writing is insufficient for you to form your own opinions in respect of this matter, perhaps you might care to break your enquiries down into simple direct questions that can be addressed in less than 5000 words. I actually started to write a response to your post last night, but after about 1200 words, I decided that I could not do justice in a public Forum based discussion to the ideas you have formulated. Break those ideas down into a format that an educated 8 year old child can understand and put them before us one idea at a time, and I think we might have something that has the potential to teach all of us, something of value. The "8 year old child" idea was given to me many years ago by a well known Australian journalist, I was advised to always try my best to never write anything for public consumption that an 8 year old child could not easily understand. I think this was very good advice, I do not always succeed , but I do try to follow it. So, I'd like to put the hard stuff that you have set before us, off to one side for the moment. But you have also asked a couple of uncomplicated things, so I'll try to get rid of those. You have asked:- "--- The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker* ---* ---Do you mean respect for the maker of the keris, by its current custodian or owner? I suppose then this also means respect for all who have taken care of this keris ever since it was made, and the families and groups that it has bound together. --- " For Empu Suparman the respect was limited to only the maker As you have noted, all keris are not equal. The role of the keris as a link between the perceived world and the hidden world is really only applicable to the pusaka keris of a kin group. In Balinese culture this facet of keris culture is still alive, in Javanese culture the link to ancestors seems to have been considerably watered down. I feel that within some kin groups the acceptance of this link might still be real, in other kin groups I believe this aspect of the keris, both as pusaka and as link to the hidden world has been lost. I think that as a general principle at the present time, the broad acceptance of the keris as a personal piyandel (a talisman, belief, reliance), is perhaps a more accurate placement in Javanese society of the keris. There is still that connection with the unseen, the esoteric, but not to the same extent, nor in the same way as is the case in Bali. Probably in rural areas, where people are still closer to animism & ancestor worship, the original nature of the keris has stronger recognition than in the Islamised urban setting. Pauzan Pusposukadgo was one of the first, and one of the most talented keris makers of the modern age. He was also a devout Muslim. He was regarded as an empu keris by the general populace and within Surakarta Karaton society, but he refused to use the title Empu, preferring to style himself as "Pandai Seni Keris". It was his firm belief that only a person who could bring life to a keris could call himself an Empu Keris. He was a Muslim, a very devout follower of Islam, and for him it was absolutely unthinkable that a human being could bring life into anything. This idea alone was sacrilege, as only God can give life. So for Pauzan, good, solid Muslim that he was, it was a pretence of Man that anybody with the supposed powers that were attributed to the Empu, could ever have existed. Nothing made by Man can be greater than Man, and only God can give life. But on the other side of the page we have the ideas and beliefs of Sufic Islam, which the Javanese adherents of Javanese indigenous belief systems found to be quite acceptable and close to their own beliefs. Thus, when we consider the entire, convoluted morass of keris belief, what we are left with is a web of interwoven belief systems, and for any true believer in anything, what he believes is indeed true for him. It is all a matter of perception and perspective. One belief is that a keris, like a shrine, is created empty, but it can be visited by a spiritual entity. So then, perhaps we need to ask if it is legitimate for any lay person to create a shrine, or perhaps further, if something that was not created as a shrine can in time become one. This question again becomes one that is open to belief. Jaga, if my short response is insufficient for you to be able to find your own answers, I am happy to continue, but only on a step by step basis.

30th November 2021, 10:57 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Alan, thank you for taking the time to attempt to approach, at least in part, Jag's difficult questions, and Jag, thanks for asking them in the first place. At first i too wondered whether this forum was the place to even attempt to approach these subjects, buy your response, though of course not all encompassing, should be immensely helpful for anyone who has been ruminating upon these subjects, even an eight year old. Also great thanks for the link to your chapter in this upcoming book. If the other writers involved have offered chapters even half as well written as what you have contributed to the subject of the personal object i believe it would be well worth acquiring.

1st December 2021, 04:17 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you for your compliments David. I have not yet read all of the contributions to this book, I have read a couple, and it does seem to me that there is some worthwhile & thought provoking writing between its covers. It has been a very long time in production. It has been driven by a group of philosophers, so I suppose we should expect to meet with some ideas that might be considered to be brain-food. Actually, I rather enjoy the questions & comments that our Guardian of the Universe posts to our Forum. Jaga has managed to get a firm grasp of the dimensions of the keris that most people fail to acknowledge, if indeed they are even aware that such dimensions even exist.

1st December 2021, 06:52 AM	#6
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Hahaha... I was wondering when the Guardian of the Universe thing would come up. It's so pompous. I hate to disappoint you all, but neither my appearance or how I think of myself is consistent with the name I use on the forum. But it does have a story, not for sharing in a public forum. Maybe one day when we can do the inaugural Keris Warung Kopi conference, and shoot the breeze in person. I'm sure we can pull some strings to get a grant so that we have funds for a very fancy venue. That way I might even be able to tell them to call me Jagabuwana without them laughing (as they should), before I request valet service for my 2005 Mazda 3 But in all seriousness, thank you Alan for taking the time to answer my question and point me in the right direction. Funnily enough I came across the forthcoming article you shared me shortly before my brain dump. I skimmed it but also earmarked it for closer reading. I'll be sure to digest what you've written and take your suggestions before I ask any further questions. David, thank you also. Yes I think eventually every keris student ponders its spiritual aspects. I hope even though this discussion forayed into more general spirituality and metaphysics, that it can have a place in this forum for better understanding the keris.

1st December 2021, 07:34 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I think more than a few people cottoned on to your elegant little non-de-plume Jaga, I remember thinking that maybe you were one of the Surakarta princes in disguise. Pomposity did not cross my mind for an instant. But a 2005 vehicle is nothing to skite about. My Sunday-go-to-meeting vehicle is a 1971 Landcruiser.

2nd December 2021, 07:40 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	IP, there is no single Javanese perspective. My own perspective is very strongly influenced by a number of Javanese perspectives, but it has also been influenced by some Balinese perspectives.It would be fair to say that when I say "my perspective" this is an incorrect statement, because I really do not have a single way of considering the keris. The other thing that we need to consider is this:- time alters perspective so when we start to consider perspectives we need to consider each perspective relative to the window of time through which we are looking. When we scratch below the surface , the surface that can be seen by everybody, we find that the nature of the keris is an exceptionally complex matter. Probably a useable way to come to some sort of an understanding of the keris is to use a three dimensional matrixical approach. We could construct such a matrix by having places across the top, times running down one side, then running back into the third dimension, an analysis of the variations on the entry to two dimensional box.