Awesome Jacobite period basket hilt broadsword

M ELEY · 23rd September 2021, 08:04 AM

I know these things sometimes get shady, like the 'gun that Jesse James used' in such and such a bank robbery, but then again, MANY of these items do have some provenance. We know which dress swords Washington carried. We've discussed other famous and semi-famous swords in the past. I'm certainly no expert, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the bloke who did the research and can prove the facts.

Jim, I'm in total agreement with the Scots and their swords. To them, it was not only a weapon, but an heirloom, a symbol, a family tradition. Perhaps it was also the fact that they knew if they lost at Culloden, those weapons would be outlawed. The pride of the Scots were their swords, comparable in some ways to the Japanese soldiers of WW II, who also took swords to war that represented their culture and family traditions. In any case, I'm very proud to be a 'curator' of this sword until I also someday pass it along to someone else who cares as much about it as I do.

Jim McDougall · 24th September 2021, 10:02 PM

Right Capn,
Paul MacDonald of Edinburgh, who was the one who restored Rob Roys sword in 2007, has an outstanding reputation as a sword restorer, but as a Master of Arms swordsman. This venture began as the family who owned the Stuart sword wielded in the famed duel sought him out to restore the sword.

With this he had the idea of trying to locate Rob Roys 'actual' sword (not examples which had been displayed from the time of Sir Walter Scott). Through meticulous research he finally located it still with a family descended from MacGregor's landlord. It had been kept rather unceremoniously in a shed, and was notably in poor condition though intact.

This is hardly the case where someone has a weapon and is parading it around as belonging to some famous figure, but one researched and found in situ.

There are countless examples of weapons purported to have belonged to famous persons, but too often these have chain of custody and provenance flaws which compromise them. At best they can often serve as 'of the type' examples.
In our familiar studies of pirates, there are the wonderful paintings by Pyle and Wyeth which present colorful images of these characters, despite the inclusion of brass hilt naval cutlasses of Civil War period!

Battara · 25th September 2021, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Jim, I'm in total agreement with the Scots and their swords. To them, it was not only a weapon, but an heirloom, a symbol, a family tradition. Perhaps it was also the fact that they knew if they lost at Culloden, those weapons would be outlawed. The pride of the Scots were their swords, comparable in some ways to the Japanese soldiers of WW II, who also took swords to war that represented their culture and family traditions.

Mark I think you hit the nail on the head. You made a great and accurate comparison to the Japanese of WWII and their swords. I have seen Scottish pieces with provenance and family connections go for insane prices.

M ELEY · 7th October 2021, 11:08 AM

From Robert's/Toaster5sgn's excellent article on Scottish fencing! Finally! An explanation of the added wrist guard to Scottish baskets and their significance to defending against the 'dreaded' hand slash. Yes, I know that's the whole purpose of ALL quillons on the guard; to protect the hand, but here I finally see proof that this 'move' to slash one's opponent's sword hand wasn't just a spur of the moment maneuver, but something practiced in Scottish fencing to get past the seemingly well-protected hand surrounded by the basket.

"The Highlander has nothing regular in Field Attacks and generally chop Right down to an Outside; or with a swinging and low Inside they endeavour to let out the Bowels, whilst every Part of his own Body is cover'd under a Target. In single Combat he aims at nothing more than disabling his Antagonist which he commonly does by chopping him across the Wrest within Side the Sword Arm, which he does in the following Manner; HE runs up boldly to half Sword, receives an Outside, and changing with his Adversary, drops his Blade below the Hilt upon the inside, draws the Edge of his Sword cross his Adversary's Wrest and springing backward saws it at the same Time."

7th October 2021, 11:08 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,211	From Robert's/Toaster5sgn's excellent article on Scottish fencing! Finally! An explanation of the added wrist guard to Scottish baskets and their significance to defending against the 'dreaded' hand slash. Yes, I know that's the whole purpose of ALL quillons on the guard; to protect the hand, but here I finally see proof that this 'move' to slash one's opponent's sword hand wasn't just a spur of the moment maneuver, but something practiced in Scottish fencing to get past the seemingly well-protected hand surrounded by the basket. "The Highlander has nothing regular in Field Attacks and generally chop Right down to an Outside; or with a swinging and low Inside they endeavour to let out the Bowels, whilst every Part of his own Body is cover'd under a Target. In single Combat he aims at nothing more than disabling his Antagonist which he commonly does by chopping him across the Wrest within Side the Sword Arm, which he does in the following Manner; HE runs up boldly to half Sword, receives an Outside, and changing with his Adversary, drops his Blade below the Hilt upon the inside, draws the Edge of his Sword cross his Adversary's Wrest and springing backward saws it at the same Time." Last edited by M ELEY; 8th October 2021 at 04:06 AM.

23rd September 2021, 08:04 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,211	I know these things sometimes get shady, like the 'gun that Jesse James used' in such and such a bank robbery, but then again, MANY of these items do have some provenance. We know which dress swords Washington carried. We've discussed other famous and semi-famous swords in the past. I'm certainly no expert, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the bloke who did the research and can prove the facts. Jim, I'm in total agreement with the Scots and their swords. To them, it was not only a weapon, but an heirloom, a symbol, a family tradition. Perhaps it was also the fact that they knew if they lost at Culloden, those weapons would be outlawed. The pride of the Scots were their swords, comparable in some ways to the Japanese soldiers of WW II, who also took swords to war that represented their culture and family traditions. In any case, I'm very proud to be a 'curator' of this sword until I also someday pass it along to someone else who cares as much about it as I do.

24th September 2021, 10:02 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,745	Right Capn, Paul MacDonald of Edinburgh, who was the one who restored Rob Roys sword in 2007, has an outstanding reputation as a sword restorer, but as a Master of Arms swordsman. This venture began as the family who owned the Stuart sword wielded in the famed duel sought him out to restore the sword. With this he had the idea of trying to locate Rob Roys 'actual' sword (not examples which had been displayed from the time of Sir Walter Scott). Through meticulous research he finally located it still with a family descended from MacGregor's landlord. It had been kept rather unceremoniously in a shed, and was notably in poor condition though intact. This is hardly the case where someone has a weapon and is parading it around as belonging to some famous figure, but one researched and found in situ. There are countless examples of weapons purported to have belonged to famous persons, but too often these have chain of custody and provenance flaws which compromise them. At best they can often serve as 'of the type' examples. In our familiar studies of pirates, there are the wonderful paintings by Pyle and Wyeth which present colorful images of these characters, despite the inclusion of brass hilt naval cutlasses of Civil War period!