Oval Ring in Scottish Basket hilts

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Will M

Jim the example on the right has a pommel very similar to a Georgian cavalry sword that just sold at Tony Cribbs auction. I noticed it because I have a sister sword virtually identical but with markings and the name of Wyatt on the blade.
Your example and the Tony Cribb sword are the only other swords I have seen with the same pommel profile.

Will thank you very much for coming in on this, and especially for reminding me of the 'Wyatt' saber. Its amazing how long we've been discussing that most interesting sword.
Even more amazing is the case of this pommel which is 'bun' shaped with the unusually tall capstan.
It seems that these tall capstans occur on hilts c.1770s but on the pommels that I call 'olive' but Mazansky calls 'sugar loaf' (?) (XIV type).

The pommel on my basket hilt seems to align with the earlier Scottish forms except for the tall capstan. As the 'olive' pommels were beginning c. 1750s it does seem possible that the feature of the tall capstan might be in effect transitional. I had no idea the pommel would be so unusual so your observation of its apparent rarity is most interesting.

Are there images of the sword sold at Cribb?
These pommels seem atypical to both the slotted hilts and basket hilts.

[Mel H]

There was some discussion quite a while since among collectors regarding the oval ring, the thinking being that it was there in order for a horseman to be able to quickly pass the sword temporarily to his left hand where his fingers could safely grip it through the ring till the user needed to take it back ready to use in his right hand. I really can't remember if anyone put forward any provenance.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Mel H

There was some discussion quite a while since among collectors regarding the oval ring, the thinking being that it was there in order for a horseman to be able to quickly pass the sword temporarily to his left hand where his fingers could safely grip it through the ring till the user needed to take it back ready to use in his right hand. I really can't remember if anyone put forward any provenance.

Thank you very much Mel for responding. This was one of the suggested possible purposes mentioned in some of the literature, it seems Ive seen it mentioned a couple of times. I dont think this aperture can be deemed for any specific purpose by design, but would serve well in this as well as to hold reins. As with many of these questions on certain elements found in sword design and structurally in hilts, there is often no recorded support historically, but its always good to have these things in discourse where material is compiled.
Again, thank you for this entry!!!

[Battara]

I've often seen people post this theory for years. Since I don't ride horses nor have a Scottish basket hilt pre-1800 (), I have no idea.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Battara

I've often seen people post this theory for years. Since I don't ride horses nor have a Scottish basket hilt pre-1800 (), I have no idea.

No problem Jose, I find myself in the same situation in discussions on the edged weapons of SE Asia, Indonesia and the Phillipines. Its all in areas with which we are most familiar. To many, the question on these features is moot, but for those of us with inate curiosity, it simply seems to need answering.
Even the 'experts' dont know for sure, but just present the most plausible answers.

[M ELEY]

I personally think the ring is so you can hold the basket and your fingers can still hold your pewter shot of Drambuie

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I personally think the ring is so you can hold the basket and your fingers can still hold your pewter shot of Drambuie

LOL!!!! Aye!!!!! Capn!!!