interesting Persian item

[kronckew]

Hook for attaching a sword frog or belt pouch to a loop on a belt? What are it's dimensions?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Hook for attaching a sword frog or belt pouch to a loop on a belt? What are it's dimensions?

Here is the size

[ariel]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Hook for attaching a sword frog or belt pouch to a loop on a belt?

Oriental suspension hooks had a flat part with a wide opening for the belt and with a plane perpendicular to the plane of the hook.
I see no possible way of attaching the pierced part to the belt.
I just cannot come up with any usable function for this thingamajig except for being a fire striker. Perhaps my “ fantasy center” is atrophic:-(
And, BTW, NW India adopted open ( pierced) iron work from both Persia and South India.
The Indian origin of that gizmo cannot be excluded, IMHO.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by ariel

Oriental suspension hooks had a flat part with a wide opening for the belt and with a plane perpendicular to the plane of the hook.
I see no possible way to attach the pierced part to the belt.
I just cannot come up with any usable function for this thingamajig except for being a fire striker. Perhaps my “ fantasy center” is atrophic:-(
And, BTW, NW India adopted open ( pierced) iron work from both Persia and South India.
The Indian origin of that gizmo cannot be excluded, IMHO.

Did you look at the picture of a rapier frog? It hooks into a belt fitting with an eye in it that accepts the hook and swivels to let the hook lie flat to the body. on mine, the eye is fixed and the hook swivels to lie flat.


Pierced iron work also occurs elsewhere, as in this European small sword/court sword belt clip. This one clips over a belt instead of using a sliding or in-line fitting, much like the clip patented by Gen. 'Jeb' Stuart for his sabre, and used by both the USA and CSA. Jeb's & the Smallwood one Hook reminds me of one I use on a Chinese Mia Dao sword...on the right

[ariel]

Interesting. "Jeb" Stuart's hanging hook differs a bit from the oriental examples. Something like that was in use from Zaporozhian Cossacks to India.
Much better mechanics.

[ariel]

And here are fire strikers. One grasps one branch and strikes with the other. There were multiple other forms, but the principle remained the same. Some are dirt simple, some are very artistic.

[ariel]

To summarize :
Sword hanger hooks were built in two separate planes, mostly perpendicular to each other. The “Jeb” Stuart’s one is an exception and requires chains because of that.
Fire strikers were built as a single plane.

[Oliver Pinchot]

I'm with Ariel. It is certainly a flint striker.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by ariel

Interesting. "Jeb" Stuart's hanging hook differs a bit from the oriental examples. Something like that was in use from Zaporozhian Cossacks to India.
Much better mechanics.

The Jeb Stuart one can be fitted with an optional hook like your cossack one. Many US & UK sword belts come with a hook either on a belt slider like the cossack one (I've seen similar from china, in bronze or even jade.) My Jeb is illustrated below. It allows the straps to hang in the correct plane.


It's for hooking the sabre's upper scabbard ring when you are on foot, or unhooking to let the scabbard hang on it's leather straps when on horse. It is NOT for hanging the straps. My US style Naval sword belt has a built-in hook where the sword scabbard ring sits.it also has the short leather strap attached to the top scabbard ring via a snap swivel hook, and a loop at the other end to slip over the belt itself, and the longer strap attaches to the lower scabbard ring via a swivel snap hook. See below, under the Jeb one. The USCG stopped riding horses after WW2, but kept the sword belt arrangement justincase.


An interestin video on how to wear your scabbard, with the sword in it of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLh3VQGrHI
It shows a variety of fitting-less as well as straps with fittings thru the ages.


Anyway, a moot point if it is indeed an Indonesian harness fitting

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Anyway, a moot point if it is indeed an Indonesian harness fitting

https://www.roots.gov.sg/Collection-...isting/1039944

[kronckew]

Aha! So, the earlier Cossack one, as I suspected, was not for hooking your sword scabbard to, like the US/UK belt fitting is.


So the Original poster's thingamy is still a wotsit.