ID for Ancient Kujang / Kudi? Hindu /Siam/Persian influence?

A. G. Maisey · 10th May 2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:-
"Pangeran Datu , regarding the rectangular tang; Early versions of the keris (Keris budha) have a similar tang. Some believe (forgot where I found that) that the earlier shape tang indicated that it wasn’t originally used as a trusting weapon, but more as a slash and cut weapon (borabodur shows some relief where the keris is held in an upper arm grip as well). So the square tang kept the blade from turning in his hilt when the goal was hit. "

In "Origin of the Keris etc," which may be found here:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/maisey/index.html

I wrote the following.

Quote:-
"Further evidence that the keris buda was used as, and developed from a weapon used with an overarm stabbing action, is to be found in the tang. The tang of the keris buda is of square section. Such a tang was necessary to prevent the blade from turning in the handle, something very undesirable in a weapon used with a powerful overarm, downwards stabbing action. Conversely, the tang of the modern keris is round, which allows adjustment of the orientation of the blade to the grip, to suit the individual user, a desirable feature of the keris used as a thrusting weapon, which is unimportant where the weapon is used overarm."

I am not aware that any researcher has proposed that the square tang demonstrated that the proto-type keris was used as a slashing weapon.

In fact, I consider that such use would be highly unlikely, as the proto-type keris was much shorter than the modern keris, and there are no monumental depictions of any object even vaguely resembling a keris, being used as a slashing weapon.

The relief carvings where overarm use of the proto-type keris can be seen are at Candi Prambanan.

There is no representation of any keris or keris-like weapon or object at Candi Borobudur

10th May 2006, 09:16 AM	#19
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Quote:- "Pangeran Datu , regarding the rectangular tang; Early versions of the keris (Keris budha) have a similar tang. Some believe (forgot where I found that) that the earlier shape tang indicated that it wasn’t originally used as a trusting weapon, but more as a slash and cut weapon (borabodur shows some relief where the keris is held in an upper arm grip as well). So the square tang kept the blade from turning in his hilt when the goal was hit. " In "Origin of the Keris etc," which may be found here:- http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/maisey/index.html I wrote the following. Quote:- "Further evidence that the keris buda was used as, and developed from a weapon used with an overarm stabbing action, is to be found in the tang. The tang of the keris buda is of square section. Such a tang was necessary to prevent the blade from turning in the handle, something very undesirable in a weapon used with a powerful overarm, downwards stabbing action. Conversely, the tang of the modern keris is round, which allows adjustment of the orientation of the blade to the grip, to suit the individual user, a desirable feature of the keris used as a thrusting weapon, which is unimportant where the weapon is used overarm." I am not aware that any researcher has proposed that the square tang demonstrated that the proto-type keris was used as a slashing weapon. In fact, I consider that such use would be highly unlikely, as the proto-type keris was much shorter than the modern keris, and there are no monumental depictions of any object even vaguely resembling a keris, being used as a slashing weapon. The relief carvings where overarm use of the proto-type keris can be seen are at Candi Prambanan. There is no representation of any keris or keris-like weapon or object at Candi Borobudur