Cut steel decorations on Indian arms

kronckew · 20th November 2019, 09:09 AM

cut Steel hilts were popular on court/mourning swords early 19c too, I wonder if they aquired a teaste for it from the Indian portion of the Empire...

Jens Nordlunde · 21st November 2019, 12:00 PM

Nihl, it is very nice steel cut decora tions on your patas.

Hindus and Muslims both used floral decoration, but not for the same reason.
To the Muslims it was pure decoration, but to the Hindus it was often a representation of a diety.

Kronckew, yes the Europeans also used steel cut decoration, but I dont think they used it as much as the Indians.

Cthulhu · 3rd December 2019, 05:25 AM

Wow, nice pieces, all.

Jens, I must admit I can't find anything that's definitively a peacock on your pata. I can imagine them all over, but anything that might be a peacock I could imagine to be just about anything else as well.

And, sadly nothing in my collection has good carved steel decoration. The closest I come is some wrenched panels on hafts. But I'm really enjoying seeing all of your lovely carved steel weapons.

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd December 2019, 02:22 PM

This might help you to find the peacocks.

Cthulhu · 7th December 2019, 03:34 AM

I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece.

And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off.

Kubur · 7th December 2019, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off.

The peacocks
nice to see
horrible to hear
like my ex-wife

Jens Nordlunde · 7th December 2019, 09:35 PM

Well, when you have to do with old weapons, you will have to study how the different forms, like animals, were shown at the time - but it seems as if none of you did so, what a pity. However, I am glad that you now see it, and hopefully have learned from this exercise:-).

kronckew · 28th April 2020, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece.
...

My zaghnol on a very similar motif: As sold, cleaned up a bit after tho.

ariel · 28th April 2020, 08:09 PM

My Aradam ( blade serrated on both edges, if on one edge only, it is an Arapusta)
Mechanical damascus. I would date it to 18 century, but would like to hear opinions

ariel · 28th April 2020, 08:19 PM

And here is my Khyber ( Selavah). A relatively small one, with blade 15 1/4"
Very careful, complex and deep chiseling with subsequent gilding on both sides. As per Jens' assessment, it is of Indian manufacture ( at least the decoration) and of high quality . He cautiously dated it to 18 century, perhaps earlier.
I would be grateful to him for a yet another look and a master class in dating/ attribution. Of course , everybody else is invited.

20th November 2019, 09:09 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	cut Steel hilts were popular on court/mourning swords early 19c too, I wonder if they aquired a teaste for it from the Indian portion of the Empire... Attached Images

3rd December 2019, 02:22 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	This might help you to find the peacocks. Attached Images

7th December 2019, 03:34 AM	#5
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Carved steel zaghnal I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece. And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off. Attached Images

28th April 2020, 08:09 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My Aradam ( blade serrated on both edges, if on one edge only, it is an Arapusta) Mechanical damascus. I would date it to 18 century, but would like to hear opinions Attached Images

28th April 2020, 08:19 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And here is my Khyber ( Selavah). A relatively small one, with blade 15 1/4" Very careful, complex and deep chiseling with subsequent gilding on both sides. As per Jens' assessment, it is of Indian manufacture ( at least the decoration) and of high quality . He cautiously dated it to 18 century, perhaps earlier. I would be grateful to him for a yet another look and a master class in dating/ attribution. Of course , everybody else is invited. Attached Images

21st November 2019, 12:00 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Nihl, it is very nice steel cut decora tions on your patas. Hindus and Muslims both used floral decoration, but not for the same reason. To the Muslims it was pure decoration, but to the Hindus it was often a representation of a diety. Kronckew, yes the Europeans also used steel cut decoration, but I dont think they used it as much as the Indians.

3rd December 2019, 05:25 AM	#3
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Wow, nice pieces, all. Jens, I must admit I can't find anything that's definitively a peacock on your pata. I can imagine them all over, but anything that might be a peacock I could imagine to be just about anything else as well. And, sadly nothing in my collection has good carved steel decoration. The closest I come is some wrenched panels on hafts. But I'm really enjoying seeing all of your lovely carved steel weapons.

7th December 2019, 09:35 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Well, when you have to do with old weapons, you will have to study how the different forms, like animals, were shown at the time - but it seems as if none of you did so, what a pity. However, I am glad that you now see it, and hopefully have learned from this exercise:-).