Talismanic Devices and Imbuements on Islamic Arms

[Jim McDougall]

Jens thank you for that great hilt entry!!! A perfect example of these unusual 'cintamani' combinations, and those 'lips' looking things do resemble clouds in a 'Rohrshach' kind of way.
Ibrahiim, thank you as well for the diligent research and entries here which are adding do much perspective to the topic.

It does seem that as with all kinds of symbolism or in many instances of intercultural exchange of influences, perception and semantics are going to have understandable differences.

For example, by way of analogy, the venerable European globe and cross, familiar as a key marking on German blades over several centuries, became a fixture not as a makers mark, but a kind of talismanic device which imbued protective properties as well as suggestion of high quality.

As these blades became traded into North Africa, the globe and cross was seen by natives in these regions as a drum and sticks, which were important in their culture as a status oriented symbol. Other markings which were often almost indeterminant in character were seen as (in one case) the fly, which odd as it sounds, to them represented the character of a great warrior.

There are many such examples and surely much the same in other cases where symbols and markings transcend cultural bounds.


I think obviously that the cintamani , referring to the three in figures usually dots, is much in this kind of situation which became a convention adopted broadly to represent what each group or culture perceived it to mean.

In many cases, of course such diffusion can lose deeper meanings and as applied in material culture items as decoration, becomes aesthetic in sense, but for our purposes we want to know the deeper meanings from their origins.


I once had a wonderful shamshir, which was clearly from Central Asia with an amazing instance of the three dot motif applied in linear fashion on the backstrap and other parts of the hilt. It was generally held that this use of the three dots represented the Turkic heritage of these people and of course heralding Tamerlane. In those times I could not associate this device (termed cintamani) with the 'gift giving jewel' in the usually described connotation. With this look into the deeper character of the term and its origins, it becomes much clearer.

So thank you Ibrahiim, and Jens, for adding all of this!!!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks Jim for a great summary on the Talisman Cintimani subject which spans so many centuries and religions down the ages. In the book shown below which I highly recommend to members it describes the difficulty encountered by the Othmanli had immense problems dealing with beurocratic issues at the best of times but in the question of liaison among the different quality workshops it was very chaotic...even though it may be said that in war they had great ability in mastering logistics...in other areas this was not the case.

In fact there was an overall sort of pecking order or authority over other master works that the Royal calligraphers seemed to have but it simply didn't work... specialists in the different disciplines of high quality craftsmanship took the designs to whatever end they were moving...so the Cintimani moved from concept to concept and even split in two the three circles or ideas from the so called tigers stripes so that they often morphed into separate designs or placed in the composition in separate areas or both.

I digress but in support of more pictures here is my next set of quite amazing photographs worth seeing from the Othmanli period on this issue. The red Koran holder showing only dots while the brown Koran holder only wavy lines i.e. Tiger stripes now morphed into cloud patterns and also seen in Turkish Rugs...AND in the decoration of the shield also incorporating dots and cloud patterns but spread separately.

Note that the Ottoman ceramic bottle has clear designs of the Cintimani and the possible shape of the tiger stripes lending themselves to The Buddha lips idea.

A most peculiar painting of a Japanese 3 dotted alter with what seems to be a sacrifice with the perpetrator making an escape and the dead body laid in front of the three ball device? A pointer toward Buddhist involvement?

[Jim McDougall]

It is sometimes hard to maintain discourse and perspective with regard to the talismanic condition as often various marks, devices, phrases etc. become regarded as indicators of quality, status and heritage. With this being the case it seems almost necessary at times to include variations and applications which might exceed the specific talismanic denominator.

In the case of the 'cintimani' device of three orbs I previously noted as found in hilt motif on a shamshir, this perhaps may not have been applied in a 'talismanic' sense per se', but more of a commemorative or honorific sense recalling tribal heritage from Tamerlane.

Still, the deeper origins of the symbol from ancient Buddhist and Hindu tradition and dogma carried profound talismanic properties and varying perception and application. This then became associated with Tamerlane, diffusing into various cultures and their material culture.

As people see this marking in materials, weapons, markings etc. many may see the Tamerlane, Turkic perspective.....while many may perceive the deeper religious and talismanic properties of ancient Buddhism and Hinduism. Here are the varied concepts that Ibrahiim refers to, and fascinating as we look into all of them as we evaluate the properties and character involved in these cases.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Compare two designs ..One of Buddhist the other Ottoman form below..The linkage suggests the two are in some way related on the one hand the 8 auspicious Buddhist signs and the wavy line seen in carpets and textiles (here seen on a Koran wallet from the Ottoman style) and from the Cintimani tiger stripe sometimes also explained as the lips of the Buddha...seen on carpets etc as a W shaped cloud pattern...and comparable to the 8 auspicious Buddhist signs...actually on 7 of them below.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

AND I have to include Omani influenced weapons...with dots on blades.

[Victrix]

We discussed four dots marks on swords in an earlier thread. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=dots . The question whether they could be forge or foundry identification marks, or have religious or superstitious/talismanic functions. If I understand this thread correctly, the three dots seems to be a fairly universal talismanic symbol offering ”protection” and the four dots could be a stronger 360˚ version offering ”protection” viewed from all directions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Great point !! Yes agreed and above you see the three khanjar blades with the centre blade protected in all directions and both sides of the blade left and right as well as on the reverse; thus stopping evil from entering blade or hilt...In fact hilts sometimes carry the dots separately as well.. extra empowerment seems to be attached when the dots are in gold or brass/copper material..and it seems Islamic script itself a Talisman sometimes gets the three or four dot treatment. (the 5 dot is in fact unrelated as it stands alone as another Talisman altogether and representative of the five fingers or hand of Fatima often linked to the evil eye protective motif..In fact the saying goes "Heres five in your eye" when that Talisman is illustrated) as below.

As seen on this thread other objects get a similar treatment and I wondered if the transition to moons came as a result of this Talisman although so far as I can deduce moons as such were reserved for blades?

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The Shellenbaum of the German Army, the Chapeau Chinois of the Legion Etrangere etc., would appear to be another incarnation of this form of standard.
Regards,
Norman.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Talisman in a Fort!! FORT JABRIN OMAN BUILT FOR THE THIRD DYNASTY YARUBA IN ABOUT 1680. THE MAGIC EYE. A MASSIVE TALISMAN COVERING THE ENTIRE CEILING

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
The Shellenbaum of the German Army, the Chapeau Chinois of the Legion Etrangere etc., would appear to be another incarnation of this form of standard.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman, EXCELLENT EXAMPLE!!! This would seem the Germanic tribes interpretation of these kinds of standards probably from the Migration Period and thereby from even Roman origins, It seems these were often in the manner if windsocks , temptingly suggesting wind direction for loosing of arrows in addition to the formation centering use.