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Old 28th December 2017, 07:10 AM   #1
Philip
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Default Portuguese style lock

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Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi David.

Yes, your lock is identical to mine, and came from the same batch. The story as told by the late Turner Kirkland was these locks were made (in Belgium I think) sometime before 1950 for sale to South Africa. Well, the sale never went through. So in the early to mid 1960's Turner bought the entire lot for little more than scrap metal cost and posted them for sale in his catalog, mainly as a novelty item. I seem to recall the price was around $12.50USD then. I do remember them in the earlier catalogs. Why the maker chose to copy an early Portugese lock design is unknown. Possibly for the simplicity. So any of these locks you see all came from this same lot. Notice there are no holes in the lock plate for mounting.

Rick
Rick, it may be that this batch that Turner bought in Belgium was assembled and then simply warehoused before they could be fully finished (note the grinder marks), and drilled and tapped for the sideplate screws needed to mount them onto whole guns. If they were made sometime between WW II and the 1950s, the market for such things in the final decades of the African colonies might have simply petered out due to the influx of inexpensive surplus rifles smuggled in from postwar Europe.

Long guns with this type of Portuguese lock were made in Belgium in the 19th cent. and possibly before. There is one of superb quality, maybe made in Liège and probably for export to Portugal or its colonies, dated 1821 that is published in Rainer Daehnhardt / Claude Gaier, Espingardaria Portuguesa, Armurerie Liègeoise (1975), pp 86-87. The specific type of lock is a fairly late one originating towards the end of the 17th cent. in Portugal, a Luso-French mechanical hybrid combining the innards of a French flintlock and the exterior design of the earlier Portuguese fecho de molinhas. The centuries-long presence of Portugal as a colonial master in equatorial and east Africa (Angola, Guinea-Bissau, Moçambique, etc) created a familiarity with and demand for Portuguese armament among the local cultures. (hence the local production of crude copies of 15th-16th cent. Portuguese and Spanish-style broadswords as symbolic regalia in Kongo and other areas down to the last century).
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Old 29th December 2017, 05:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip
Rick, it may be that this batch that Turner bought in Belgium was assembled and then simply warehoused before they could be fully finished (note the grinder marks), and drilled and tapped for the sideplate screws needed to mount them onto whole guns. If they were made sometime between WW II and the 1950s, the market for such things in the final decades of the African colonies might have simply petered out due to the influx of inexpensive surplus rifles smuggled in from postwar Europe.

Long guns with this type of Portuguese lock were made in Belgium in the 19th cent. and possibly before. There is one of superb quality, maybe made in Liège and probably for export to Portugal or its colonies, dated 1821 that is published in Rainer Daehnhardt / Claude Gaier, Espingardaria Portuguesa, Armurerie Liègeoise (1975), pp 86-87. The specific type of lock is a fairly late one originating towards the end of the 17th cent. in Portugal, a Luso-French mechanical hybrid combining the innards of a French flintlock and the exterior design of the earlier Portuguese fecho de molinhas. The centuries-long presence of Portugal as a colonial master in equatorial and east Africa (Angola, Guinea-Bissau, Moçambique, etc) created a familiarity with and demand for Portuguese armament among the local cultures. (hence the local production of crude copies of 15th-16th cent. Portuguese and Spanish-style broadswords as symbolic regalia in Kongo and other areas down to the last century).
Hi Philip.

I'm sure all of your analysis above is correct. The Portuguese dominence in the Region may very well account for the original prototype for this lock. It makes sense. Good point.
Yes, the lack of mounting holes and the unpolished finish seem to indicate that's where the production ended. And just stored away in a warehouse and forgotten. LOL
Notice also, there is not even a half-cock/safety notch cut into the tumbler. Seems like they were trying to cut every corner making these. LOL
Thanks for the additional Regional knowledge.

Rick
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Old 29th December 2017, 06:09 PM   #3
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Default cutting corners

Not only is there no half-cock detent in the tumbler, there appears to be no functioning lockplate safety pawl on the outside of the lockplate as is typical on several earlier Portuguese locks -- the molinhas, the horse-neck or pescoço de cavalo, and the half-Portuguese half-French or meio à portuguesa e meio à francesa systems in particular. On the trade-gun flintlock we are discussing there appears an oblong projection from the plate just ahead of the cock -- I haven't examined one of these locks in a long time but as I recall it doesn't swivel so that it can't perform the function of the "Portuguese brake" on the above-mentioned locks, and would therefore be just a stylistic flourish.

When I was in high school I saw a film about tribal life in equatorial Africa (this was in the 1960s, pre-Kalashnikov era), and a local hunter had a Belgian-type halfstock trade gun with a conventional percussion cap lock. Pretty basic gear, the lead balls weren't remotely spherical, and when he loaded the gun and carried it around, he gently lowered the hammer onto the capped nipple and let it be until he was ready to cock and fire. If this was traditional practice in the culture-sphere, maybe that's why a half-cock detent was considered superfluous! (by the way, he missed a coke bottle on a stick at less than 20 paces...)
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Old 29th December 2017, 09:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip
Not only is there no half-cock detent in the tumbler, there appears to be no functioning lockplate safety pawl on the outside of the lockplate as is typical on several earlier Portuguese locks -- the molinhas, the horse-neck or pescoço de cavalo, and the half-Portuguese half-French or meio à portuguesa e meio à francesa systems in particular. On the trade-gun flintlock we are discussing there appears an oblong projection from the plate just ahead of the cock -- I haven't examined one of these locks in a long time but as I recall it doesn't swivel so that it can't perform the function of the "Portuguese brake" on the above-mentioned locks, and would therefore be just a stylistic flourish.

When I was in high school I saw a film about tribal life in equatorial Africa (this was in the 1960s, pre-Kalashnikov era), and a local hunter had a Belgian-type halfstock trade gun with a conventional percussion cap lock. Pretty basic gear, the lead balls weren't remotely spherical, and when he loaded the gun and carried it around, he gently lowered the hammer onto the capped nipple and let it be until he was ready to cock and fire. If this was traditional practice in the culture-sphere, maybe that's why a half-cock detent was considered superfluous! (by the way, he missed a coke bottle on a stick at less than 20 paces...)
Hi Philip.
Yes, that piece just ahead of the hammer neck is rigid. Just a stying excercise. Doesn't even act as a hammer stop. I guess the lock designer was not much worried about the locals carrying the gun in full cock mode all the time. LOL Yes, looks like they cut every corner not having the original style exterior dog-style safety.

Rick
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:30 PM   #5
Norman McCormick
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Hi,
Barrel definitely made in U.K.
Regards,
Norman.
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Old 16th February 2018, 06:46 PM   #6
JamesKelly
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Before you remove that Nasty Orange paint you might investigate it a bit.

I used to work as the metallurgist for a specialty nickel alloy distributor, retired the Ides of March 2007. One of the neat gadgets we had was an X-ray fluoroscope analyzer. Left no mark on the metal. For some years I used to bring in various brass mounted or framed firearms for analysis.

Used one called "Innov-X Systems Model #XT-245S Spectrometer"
This device is also used to analyze pigments in the paint on supposedly old oil paintings. Lets one know if this classic work used pigments - cadmium, for example - that were not available couple hundred years ago.

If you can locate either a friend in metallurgy, or at an art museum, you might get your paint analyzed. Give you some idea of age, though it sure does look old.

A Word of Warning - some lab guys have absolutely no respect for antiquity. Coupled with a bad sense of humor, well. Do make sure your personal body is present during any phase of lab testing. So they don't cut the thing up for a better job. Don't laugh.
Gun makers have been painting their stocks various colors for the last five centuries or so. Matchlock showed a lovely (to my eye) 500-year old Green snapping matchlock.
Here in the USA a successful gun-smith Henry Leman in Lancaster, Pennsylvania painted a number of his rifles red. Supposedly the Indians liked them, and he did supply rifles to our Gov't to fulfill treaty obligations with the Western Indians. Also it would likely be cheaper than his usual painted strips on plain maple. Am aware of one such red Leman rifle bought by a Caucasian in Lancaster County, them moved to our Midwest.

Personally I would leave that orange paint right where it is.
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Old 14th March 2018, 09:39 AM   #7
colin henshaw
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This example was sold in England recently, described as a Hudsons Bay Company musket. As can be seen, it has the same sort of red/orange thick paint finish.
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Old 29th December 2017, 06:14 PM   #8
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Be careful if you remove the paint. red lead paints can look a quite bright orange & can be bad for your health.
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