A flintlock pistol ... with a Portuguese lock.

Philip · 23rd November 2017, 03:43 AM

Thanks, Fernando, for the supplemental images. The interior of the lock shows that this was truly a fine thing in its day, a pity that it has suffered so much from the ravages of wear and corrosion. The design of the mecha da caxeta (or whatever the concise English term is for the internal leaf spring that supports both the full-cock sear stud and which gives tension to the half-cock sear and trigger arm) has really deluxe touches, it is not the straight bar that is seen on more utilitarian locks.

Rick, the use of a set-screw to secure the striated striking-plate onto the frizzen body was common in Spain as well through most of the 18th cent. J D Lavin, our go-to author in the English-language literature on the subject, notes that during the 17th cent., the strike plate was narrower than the body, whose sides extended outward a couple of millimeters on each side of the dovetail to form a "lip". These early plates tended to also have grooves that were shallower at the center than at the top and bottom of the plate.

In the 18th cent., the frizzen body and plate were flush on each side. The grooves also took on an equal depth top to bottom. P 160 of his A HISTORY OF SPANISH FIREARMS has diagrams of both types, I'm sure you and Fernando have this book.

Examining the 3 guns with patilla locks in my collection, I note the following that reflect a change in design during the final decades of the 18th cent. and a regional variant on copies made outside of Spain:

1. Elimination of the set-screw. The dovetailing is so precise as to be hardly visible, and the sides are flush, with grooves of constant depth both consistent with the above paragraph.. This, on a Catalan-stocked fowler with a lock of provincial style by Fernando Murúa, analogous to a very similar one by Guisasola / Navarro dated 1796, Metropolitan Museum no. 16.135 which you can access online via the Collections section of the Museum's website.

2. Elimination of the grooves. On this gun, a fowler by Miguel de Zegarra (court gunsmith to King Carlos III) 1770s, the frizzen is shaped like that of a French flintlock with curved face and "tombstone" rounded top. But the strike plate is still dovetailed in place and the joint is very difficult to discern.

3. One-piece flintlock-style frizzen with no grooves. This on a miquelet lock of south German or Austrian origin. It and the stock with its fittings were made to accommodate a war-trophy Ottoman smoothbore damascus barrel of the 17th cent., the gun built around 1690.

corrado26 · 23rd November 2017, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

The design of the mecha da caxeta (or whatever the concise English term is for the internal leaf spring that supports both the full-cock sear stud and which gives tension to the half-cock sear and trigger arm) has really deluxe touches, it is not the straight bar that is seen on more utilitarian locks.

I have im my collection a miquelet pistol whose lock has at the inner side of the lockplate a very similar spring. As there is not a single mark to be found on the barrel, the lock or the mounts I do not know in which country this pistol has been made. The shape of ist stock is very special, it never had a trigger guard and the shape of the lockplate is very uncommon too. They told me that it might have been made in Naples/I but this is just a guess.
corrado26

fernando · 23rd November 2017, 11:09 AM

RIPOLL ?

(from Coleccionar ARMAS ANTIGAS by Rainer Daehnhardt).

.

corrado26 · 23rd November 2017, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

RIPOLL ?

(from Coleccionar ARMAS ANTIGAS by Rainer Daehnhardt).

.

Fernando, thank you very much, this was a very great help. I just ordered the Daehnhardt book
corrado26

fernando · 23rd November 2017, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Fernando, thank you very much, this was a very great help. I just ordered the Daehnhardt book...

Glad to be of some help

.

fernando · 3rd December 2017, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Fernando, thank you very much, this was a very great help. I just ordered the Daehnhardt book
corrado26

I don't want to create any confucsuion but, apparently this type of pistol was also made in Portugal. In the work ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA (page 463) you can see a pair of pistols with a Castillian style lock, marked with date PORTO 1780 and with an unidentified signature.

.

Philip · 3rd December 2017, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I don't want to create any confucsuion but, apparently this type of pistol was also made in Portugal. In the work ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA (page 463) you can see a pair of pistols with a Castillian style lock, marked with date PORTO 1780 and with an unidentified signature.

.

So true, Fernando. The various types of miquelet locks had a truly international following, their popularity was not just limited to their birthplaces. Daehnhardt/Gaier ESPINGARDARIA PORTUGUESA/ARMURERIE LIÈGEOISE shows photos of some truly regal Portuguese sporting guns with patilha locks. Because southern Italy was ruled by Spain for so long, the patilla lock also became a mainstay with Neapolitan gunsmiths, and Brescian workshops also made them for the southern market. (see Marcello Terenzi, L'ARTE DI MICHELE BATTISTA, ARMAIOLO NAPOLETANO for examples, mostly with Madrid-style buttstocks to boot.).

Likewise, the alla romana type of mechanism was also made in Spain, note the exquisite fowling pieces with such locks by court gunsmith Diego Esquibel (early 18th cent., Armería Real de Madrid K-139) and a similar (K-138) by Nicolás Bis, see photos in A. Soler del Campo, CATÁLOGO DE ARCABUCERA MADRILEÑA

Philip · 4th December 2017, 12:05 AM

Oh, I forgot to mention the copies of patilla locks made by Austrian and German smiths, mostly in the 17th cent., to fit onto sporting guns built on captured Ottoman damascus gun barrels (the original Turkish locks were of inferior workmanship and almost never reused), or onto imitation Spanish-style shotguns made to capitalize on the popularity of the originals by virtue of their barrels. Modified versions of the lock are also seen on some French and Austrian breechloaders of the early 18th cent. The quality of the Germanic products was typically, as can be expected, quite high and the mechanical design kept pace with contemporary development in southern Europe.

23rd November 2017, 03:43 AM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Frizzens, and their construction Thanks, Fernando, for the supplemental images. The interior of the lock shows that this was truly a fine thing in its day, a pity that it has suffered so much from the ravages of wear and corrosion. The design of the mecha da caxeta (or whatever the concise English term is for the internal leaf spring that supports both the full-cock sear stud and which gives tension to the half-cock sear and trigger arm) has really deluxe touches, it is not the straight bar that is seen on more utilitarian locks. Rick, the use of a set-screw to secure the striated striking-plate onto the frizzen body was common in Spain as well through most of the 18th cent. J D Lavin, our go-to author in the English-language literature on the subject, notes that during the 17th cent., the strike plate was narrower than the body, whose sides extended outward a couple of millimeters on each side of the dovetail to form a "lip". These early plates tended to also have grooves that were shallower at the center than at the top and bottom of the plate. In the 18th cent., the frizzen body and plate were flush on each side. The grooves also took on an equal depth top to bottom. P 160 of his A HISTORY OF SPANISH FIREARMS has diagrams of both types, I'm sure you and Fernando have this book. Examining the 3 guns with patilla locks in my collection, I note the following that reflect a change in design during the final decades of the 18th cent. and a regional variant on copies made outside of Spain: 1. Elimination of the set-screw. The dovetailing is so precise as to be hardly visible, and the sides are flush, with grooves of constant depth both consistent with the above paragraph.. This, on a Catalan-stocked fowler with a lock of provincial style by Fernando Murúa, analogous to a very similar one by Guisasola / Navarro dated 1796, Metropolitan Museum no. 16.135 which you can access online via the Collections section of the Museum's website. 2. Elimination of the grooves. On this gun, a fowler by Miguel de Zegarra (court gunsmith to King Carlos III) 1770s, the frizzen is shaped like that of a French flintlock with curved face and "tombstone" rounded top. But the strike plate is still dovetailed in place and the joint is very difficult to discern. 3. One-piece flintlock-style frizzen with no grooves. This on a miquelet lock of south German or Austrian origin. It and the stock with its fittings were made to accommodate a war-trophy Ottoman smoothbore damascus barrel of the 17th cent., the gun built around 1690.

23rd November 2017, 11:09 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	RIPOLL ? (from Coleccionar ARMAS ANTIGAS by Rainer Daehnhardt). . Attached Images

4th December 2017, 12:05 AM	#8
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Oh, I forgot to mention the copies of patilla locks made by Austrian and German smiths, mostly in the 17th cent., to fit onto sporting guns built on captured Ottoman damascus gun barrels (the original Turkish locks were of inferior workmanship and almost never reused), or onto imitation Spanish-style shotguns made to capitalize on the popularity of the originals by virtue of their barrels. Modified versions of the lock are also seen on some French and Austrian breechloaders of the early 18th cent. The quality of the Germanic products was typically, as can be expected, quite high and the mechanical design kept pace with contemporary development in southern Europe.