A VERY DECORATED FLINTLOCK PISTOL FOR ID

rickystl · 19th November 2017, 06:28 PM

Hi Cerjak.

WOW!!! What a beautiful pistol !! And a real curiosity.
It has styling cues of both earlier and later periods. Which is actually common for pistols made in/for the Eastern market. But this one is exceptional. The decoration, with it's face masks on the lock plate and barrel look like a mix of English and Indian. So the final assembly possibly in India may be as good a guess as any. The spurios "variation" of the Twigg name makes me think the pistol was not assembled in Europe. It does seem this pistol was commissioned for a specific customer. And the workmanship is top notch. The lock is very high quality, and certainly up to European snuff. I notice it has the bridless pan, an earlier feature. As Richard mentions, I too can see the difference in patina of the hammer, pan, frizzen, and even the frizzen spring. If they were replaced, it was certainly a first class job. The face of the frizzen looks like it has never seen a flint struck against it. Curious. But the one photo showing the vent hole does not, to me, look like the barrel had been altered previously. And the vent hole sits at the perfect position above the pan. Just my observations.

Again, it's a beautiful and super interesting pistol.

Rick

rickystl · 19th November 2017, 06:36 PM

One other small item.
Notice the barrel tang screw, and lock plate screws are all pointed in the same direction. This was a common practice of the best gunmakers in the period.
Rick

Cerjak · 20th November 2017, 05:37 PM

Hi Rick

Thank you again for your comment,
About the barrel I can confirm you that the vent hole is not altered and so like you I believe that this pistol is not re-converted into flintlock.
Best
Cerjak

Pukka Bundook · 21st November 2017, 02:32 PM

Dear Cerjak,

I can see the touchhole has no liner screwed in, as would be the case if altered back from percussion, But, the area of the touchhole has No patina either, in an area that typically has Much More patina (Rust & pitting) than anywhere else. Also, we see a different coloured metal around the touchhole, which to me says welding.

There is no other way to account for this, plus the cock, pan, and (frizzen)having no rust/pitting, Plus the frizzen having absolutely No wear, than that this pistols re-converted.

I am not trying to find fault, but this is as it is.
I would advise putting this pistol up on another antique arms forum, and see what they say.

Kindest regards,
Richard.

Cerjak · 21st November 2017, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dear Cerjak,

I can see the touchhole has no liner screwed in, as would be the case if altered back from percussion, But, the area of the touchhole has No patina either, in an area that typically has Much More patina (Rust & pitting) than anywhere else. Also, we see a different coloured metal around the touchhole, which to me says welding.

There is no other way to account for this, plus the cock, pan, and (frizzen)having no rust/pitting, Plus the frizzen having absolutely No wear, than that this pistols re-converted.

I am not trying to find fault, but this is as it is.
I would advise putting this pistol up on another antique arms forum, and see what they say.

Kindest regards,
Richard.

Richard

May be this pictures could help you .. I don't see any trace of welding
Best
cerjak

fernando · 21st November 2017, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

...Maybe this pictures could help you .. I don't see any trace of welding...

Therefore no trace of having once been drilled to introduce a percussion bolster, correct ?

.

Fernando K · 21st November 2017, 09:13 PM

Hello everyone

I want to make some considerations: First the different coloring in the barrel and the plate of the lock and between the mobile pieces of the lock: the cock, the bread and the frizzen. The first ones can not be cleaned of their oxide by the presence of the incrustation in gold and platel The seconds can be cleaned / polished, because they have no incrustation and if engravings.

Second The mobile parts of the lock have been cleaned / polished. This is demonstrated by the frizzen screw, which retains the oxide in the engraving incisions. The same for the bread, which has rust on that engraved line, parallel to its surface and on the lips, which conceal the line of insertion with the plate

Third Here the lack of scratches of the stone in the face of frizzen has been commented. The pictures of post 1 and 3 show the frizzen, but out of focus and I think you can see something. Anyway, a gun received as a gift and precious, has had little use. Another cleaning test is found in the inner incisions of the two jaws, which in their drag have to have a raised triangle to take the leather or lead that covers the flint. I think they are not observed, and that they have been filed or emery past.

19th November 2017, 06:28 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Cerjak. WOW!!! What a beautiful pistol !! And a real curiosity. It has styling cues of both earlier and later periods. Which is actually common for pistols made in/for the Eastern market. But this one is exceptional. The decoration, with it's face masks on the lock plate and barrel look like a mix of English and Indian. So the final assembly possibly in India may be as good a guess as any. The spurios "variation" of the Twigg name makes me think the pistol was not assembled in Europe. It does seem this pistol was commissioned for a specific customer. And the workmanship is top notch. The lock is very high quality, and certainly up to European snuff. I notice it has the bridless pan, an earlier feature. As Richard mentions, I too can see the difference in patina of the hammer, pan, frizzen, and even the frizzen spring. If they were replaced, it was certainly a first class job. The face of the frizzen looks like it has never seen a flint struck against it. Curious. But the one photo showing the vent hole does not, to me, look like the barrel had been altered previously. And the vent hole sits at the perfect position above the pan. Just my observations. Again, it's a beautiful and super interesting pistol. Rick

19th November 2017, 06:36 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	One other small item. Notice the barrel tang screw, and lock plate screws are all pointed in the same direction. This was a common practice of the best gunmakers in the period. Rick

20th November 2017, 05:37 PM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi Rick Thank you again for your comment, About the barrel I can confirm you that the vent hole is not altered and so like you I believe that this pistol is not re-converted into flintlock. Best Cerjak

21st November 2017, 02:32 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Cerjak, I can see the touchhole has no liner screwed in, as would be the case if altered back from percussion, But, the area of the touchhole has No patina either, in an area that typically has Much More patina (Rust & pitting) than anywhere else. Also, we see a different coloured metal around the touchhole, which to me says welding. There is no other way to account for this, plus the cock, pan, and (frizzen)having no rust/pitting, Plus the frizzen having absolutely No wear, than that this pistols re-converted. I am not trying to find fault, but this is as it is. I would advise putting this pistol up on another antique arms forum, and see what they say. Kindest regards, Richard.

21st November 2017, 09:13 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello everyone I want to make some considerations: First the different coloring in the barrel and the plate of the lock and between the mobile pieces of the lock: the cock, the bread and the frizzen. The first ones can not be cleaned of their oxide by the presence of the incrustation in gold and platel The seconds can be cleaned / polished, because they have no incrustation and if engravings. Second The mobile parts of the lock have been cleaned / polished. This is demonstrated by the frizzen screw, which retains the oxide in the engraving incisions. The same for the bread, which has rust on that engraved line, parallel to its surface and on the lips, which conceal the line of insertion with the plate Third Here the lack of scratches of the stone in the face of frizzen has been commented. The pictures of post 1 and 3 show the frizzen, but out of focus and I think you can see something. Anyway, a gun received as a gift and precious, has had little use. Another cleaning test is found in the inner incisions of the two jaws, which in their drag have to have a raised triangle to take the leather or lead that covers the flint. I think they are not observed, and that they have been filed or emery past.