A VERY DECORATED FLINTLOCK PISTOL FOR ID

Pukka Bundook · 10th November 2017, 02:01 PM

A photo of the lock internals and lock mortise would be very much appreciated, Cerjak.

Best wishes,
Richard.

Cerjak · 11th November 2017, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

A photo of the lock internals and lock mortise would be very much appreciated, Cerjak.

Best wishes,
Richard.

Dear Richard

This is the pics
It seems very strange that there is no one marks ,this pistol has many massif silver embellishment but the barrel and lock are not signed.
I'm wondering what was the purpose of the maker.
Best
Jean-Luc

Pukka Bundook · 11th November 2017, 01:43 PM

It Is a very nicely made lock, Jean-Luc.

From the outside it looks English but I see it has a separate pan attached to the lock plate, so has to be either Continental, or a copy of Continental.
I wonder why the bushed hole for the pan retaining screw? It looks very clean and well done but a bit recent possibly?
Does the touch-hole have a liner fitted? .... I am wondering about a possible re-conversion to flint from percussion.
Does the engraving on the frizzen/steel & cock and rest of the piece?

The lack of markings on the barrel and lock still say this could possibly be Very high-end Indian work.
It is a lovely and well designed piece.
If possible at some time, please show us the mortise for the lock. Inletting tells us a lot about where a gun may come from.

Best regards,

Richard.

Yes, On looking again at your first photos Jean -Luc, I see the pan and cock show none of the patina we see on the barrel.
The pan and cock and frizzen appear to have been added more recently.
It is a high-end lock with lovely springs.
When this re-conversion was done I do not know, but it is a very tidy job.
This also opens up the possibility that the lock is a high-quality English trade lock, and the "continental pan attachment" could have come about in its re-conversion.

A lovely and enigmatic piece!!

Richard.

Fernando K · 11th November 2017, 07:52 PM

Hello

The thesis of a percussion conversion to flint has no handle. There is nothing in the canyon that has been percussion. The lock, with false cup, is consistent, if as we maintain, the weapon is Belgian or continental
The different coloration or patina between the barrel and the lock is due to the fact that the barrel has been cleaned of its rust, to highlight the silver incrustations, which become inexorably black with the passage of time. The presence of caries or pitting, next to the shiny metal, prove it.

affectionately Fernando K

Pukka Bundook · 11th November 2017, 08:01 PM

Dear Fernando,

The lock would have originally been flint, and at some time altered to percussion, Then, later back to flint.
The easiest method of converting to percussion, is with the drum and nipple arrangement. This entails drilling out the touchhole to a larger size, tapping, and screwing in a drum containing the nipple.
This type of conversion was very common, and these days Many are being converted back, as a flint is worth more generally then a converted percussion piece.
I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say.

The patination on the barrel and the rest of the lock are consistent, and much more visible than on the (newer I think) cock , pan and steel, (or frizzen).
Yes you are very correct, a lock made in Europe very often had a separate pan fitted, as I said in my post above.

Kindest regards,
Richard.

Fernando K · 11th November 2017, 09:41 PM

Dear Pukka

What he manifests is imaginative. there is no record of the successive transformations.

Affectionately. Fernando K

fernando · 11th November 2017, 09:56 PM

Although tocayo, this is not the first time i hear about 'successive' modifications. I confess that this 'diagnosis' i once received for a pistol of mine was doubtful for me, but ...

10th November 2017, 02:01 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	A photo of the lock internals and lock mortise would be very much appreciated, Cerjak. Best wishes, Richard.

11th November 2017, 01:43 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	It Is a very nicely made lock, Jean-Luc. From the outside it looks English but I see it has a separate pan attached to the lock plate, so has to be either Continental, or a copy of Continental. I wonder why the bushed hole for the pan retaining screw? It looks very clean and well done but a bit recent possibly? Does the touch-hole have a liner fitted? .... I am wondering about a possible re-conversion to flint from percussion. Does the engraving on the frizzen/steel & cock and rest of the piece? The lack of markings on the barrel and lock still say this could possibly be Very high-end Indian work. It is a lovely and well designed piece. If possible at some time, please show us the mortise for the lock. Inletting tells us a lot about where a gun may come from. Best regards, Richard. Yes, On looking again at your first photos Jean -Luc, I see the pan and cock show none of the patina we see on the barrel. The pan and cock and frizzen appear to have been added more recently. It is a high-end lock with lovely springs. When this re-conversion was done I do not know, but it is a very tidy job. This also opens up the possibility that the lock is a high-quality English trade lock, and the "continental pan attachment" could have come about in its re-conversion. A lovely and enigmatic piece!! Richard.

11th November 2017, 07:52 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello The thesis of a percussion conversion to flint has no handle. There is nothing in the canyon that has been percussion. The lock, with false cup, is consistent, if as we maintain, the weapon is Belgian or continental The different coloration or patina between the barrel and the lock is due to the fact that the barrel has been cleaned of its rust, to highlight the silver incrustations, which become inexorably black with the passage of time. The presence of caries or pitting, next to the shiny metal, prove it. affectionately Fernando K

11th November 2017, 08:01 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Fernando, The lock would have originally been flint, and at some time altered to percussion, Then, later back to flint. The easiest method of converting to percussion, is with the drum and nipple arrangement. This entails drilling out the touchhole to a larger size, tapping, and screwing in a drum containing the nipple. This type of conversion was very common, and these days Many are being converted back, as a flint is worth more generally then a converted percussion piece. I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say. The patination on the barrel and the rest of the lock are consistent, and much more visible than on the (newer I think) cock , pan and steel, (or frizzen). Yes you are very correct, a lock made in Europe very often had a separate pan fitted, as I said in my post above. Kindest regards, Richard.

11th November 2017, 09:41 PM	#6
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Dear Pukka What he manifests is imaginative. there is no record of the successive transformations. Affectionately. Fernando K

11th November 2017, 09:56 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Although tocayo, this is not the first time i hear about 'successive' modifications. I confess that this 'diagnosis' i once received for a pistol of mine was doubtful for me, but ...