The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:51 PM

Old 4th June 2015, 04:12 PM #267

Posted by:
ulfberth
Member

Join Date: Jul 2014

Salaams Ibrahiim,

that is an amazing find and sublime research !

kind regards
Ulfberth
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:52 PM

Old 30th January 2016, 03:49 AM #268

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

It seems most appropriate to note here that a magnificent book,
"European Makers of Edged Weapons, Their Marks" by Staffan Kinman,
President of the Swedish Arms and Armour Society, published in 2015 is now available through Ken Trotman arms books in England.

This thread has had a magnificent run, and has essentially archived our many discussions on the markings which have been often perplexing and presented ponderous queries. Here in the pages of Mr Kinman's wonderful book are details on many of these compiled with absolutely magnificent research!
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:52 PM

Old 12th March 2016, 06:45 PM #269

Posted by:
joyfulkitten
Member

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Washington State, USA

I recently had the opportunity to acquire a sword for my collection. I have been unable to identify the marks on the blade. I was told it was German, but some research also points to Sumarian. I have checked all of the entries in this thread, and some of the other threads as well, but have still come up short. Does anyone have an idea of the origins of these marks?
Attached Images
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:53 PM

Old 13th March 2016, 11:47 AM #270

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal

Amazing !
While (some of) the marks are not totally irecognized, i have never seen such type of hilt. Hopefully some members can say something about both.
.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:54 PM

Old 13th March 2016, 11:51 AM #271

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK

Originally Posted by fernando
Amazing !
While (some of) the marks are not totally {un?}recognized, i have never seen such type of hilt. Hopefully some members can say something about both.

(i think fernando meant 'unrecognised') (Quote)

yes, i'd noticed the odd hilt myself, can we have a picture of the whole sword please is the end of the pommel peened?
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:54 PM

Old 13th March 2016, 12:20 PM #272

Posted by:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman,
on the border with the UAE

Originally Posted by joyfulkitten
I recently had the opportunity to acquire a sword for my collection. I have been unable to identify the marks on the blade. I was told it was German, but some research also points to Sumarian. I have checked all of the entries in this thread, and some of the other threads as well, but have still come up short. Does anyone have an idea of the origins of these marks? (Quote)

Salaams joyfulkitten, Whilst the three obvious marks appear to be sun, moon and stars there is a suggestion of something theatrical in this sword...not least the odd hilt.
What part do you suggest has Sumerian link?... The vaguely anchor shaped mark ?..perhaps that is where you link Sumerian since dagger hilts were roughly that shape but it is not something I would rely upon.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:54 PM

Old 13th March 2016, 03:57 PM #273

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Hi JK,
I see you have done some most interesting research on this unusual item, and am most curious as well on the Sumerian association. Other than the extremely ancient Mesopotamian civilization , or the Cimmerians who lived much later, I think only of the well known movies of 'Conan the Barbarian'.
While the 'theatrical nature' of this item seems well placed, it does not seem to correspond to props in that film.

The markings are indeed a most interesting mélange of some used in various contexts by German makers of 17th and 18th centuries A.D.
I think the 'anchor' type mark resembles similar seen on blades from Valencia, Spain in the 16th into 17th c. A.D.
The sun and moon were cosmological symbols used on blades in Germany and East Europe in the 17th-18th c. as mentioned.
The stars were added embellishments in these contexts.
The grouping of these symbols, while not particularly well executed, seems most interesting on a theatrical sword as these kinds of details are not usually added.

You noted that this item was added to your collection, may I ask what type of swords or edged weapons do you collect?
.

19th October 2017, 03:51 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 4th June 2015, 04:12 PM #267 Posted by: ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Salaams Ibrahiim, that is an amazing find and sublime research ! kind regards Ulfberth - Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:28 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:52 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 12th March 2016, 06:45 PM #269 Posted by: joyfulkitten Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Washington State, USA I recently had the opportunity to acquire a sword for my collection. I have been unable to identify the marks on the blade. I was told it was German, but some research also points to Sumarian. I have checked all of the entries in this thread, and some of the other threads as well, but have still come up short. Does anyone have an idea of the origins of these marks? Attached Images . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:26 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:53 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 13th March 2016, 11:47 AM #270 Posted by: fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Amazing ! While (some of) the marks are not totally irecognized, i have never seen such type of hilt. Hopefully some members can say something about both. . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:32 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:54 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 13th March 2016, 11:51 AM #271 Posted by: kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK Originally Posted by fernando Amazing ! While (some of) the marks are not totally {un?}recognized, i have never seen such type of hilt. Hopefully some members can say something about both. (i think fernando meant 'unrecognised') (Quote) yes, i'd noticed the odd hilt myself, can we have a picture of the whole sword please is the end of the pommel peened? . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:33 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:54 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 13th March 2016, 12:20 PM #272 Posted by: Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Originally Posted by joyfulkitten I recently had the opportunity to acquire a sword for my collection. I have been unable to identify the marks on the blade. I was told it was German, but some research also points to Sumarian. I have checked all of the entries in this thread, and some of the other threads as well, but have still come up short. Does anyone have an idea of the origins of these marks? (Quote) Salaams joyfulkitten, Whilst the three obvious marks appear to be sun, moon and stars there is a suggestion of something theatrical in this sword...not least the odd hilt. What part do you suggest has Sumerian link?... The vaguely anchor shaped mark ?..perhaps that is where you link Sumerian since dagger hilts were roughly that shape but it is not something I would rely upon. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:35 PM.