The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

[fernando]

Old 11th March 2014, 05:22 PM #256

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Originally Posted by fernando
It would be a pity if members don't visit the " Classic Threads " thread, which is in a sticky position on the top of the front page:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14460

... Such is the importance we give to themes like the one in question. (Quote)

I totally agree!!
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[fernando]

Old 19th March 2014, 03:26 PM #257

Posted by:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman,
on the border with the UAE

Salaams All.. This strange sword has appeared from somewhere in Africa; I presume. But what it is I have no clue. Apologies in advance as the full sword picture failed to come out.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

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[fernando]

Old 19th March 2014, 05:51 PM #258

Posted by:
Matchlock
(deceased)

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th
and 16th century gunmaking

Hi Ibrahiim,

Though this is not my field, I hope I can clarify your query.

There is a recent book in German by Jürg Meier: Vivat Hollandia - zur Geschichte der Schweizer in holländischen Diensten 1740-1795. Griffwaffen und Uniformen. 2008.

The author describes the use of both edged weapons and uniforms of Swiss soldiers serving for the Netherlands. Thus your sword with that inscription dedicated to the Netherlands must be of Swiss make between 1740 and 1795.
The #4 and combined sign both stand for the respective unit; for an identification of the latter I am certain we do have some experts.


Best,
Michael

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[fernando]

Old 20th March 2014, 04:54 AM #259

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Thank you so much for posting this, its great to see this venerable thread revived. This is indeed an interesting grouping and inscription on this blade.
Michael, thank you so much for coming in on this!! and for the excellent input on these Swiss mercenary forces which were so prevalent in European armies. This perfectly explains this slogan VIVAT HOLLANDIA .

Actually most blades for the Dutch, and for Swiss forces in these times were typically produced in Solingen, though in many cases there were German smiths working in the Netherlands. I have not been aware of any working in Switzerland.
Solingen in the 18th century was producing numbers of blades for various European countries and there were variations with the 'Vivat' motto.
Others were 'Vivat Pandur' usually on various hangers and hunting weapons including plug bayonets; also 'Vivat Hussar' on military sabres with military motif and panoplies. Many of these were destined for Austria, Hungary and other centers in Europe.

The majuscule IK with the numeral 4 above is most likely a makers initials, and the 4 atop is in similar configuration as this number above the heart on EIC balemark as well as many makers and printers logos using initials topped by the 4. This number is considered talismanic (for the magical/astrological symbol for Jupiter) and was used in the same fashion as the cross and orb so often seen on arms.

In Bezdek (p.142) a mark with large block initials D over K with the 4 above them was used by Dries Klein in Solingen 1610-30. These makers marks and initials were often passed down or sold, but the configurations and use of key symbols (such as the 4) were often adopted in variation. I would say that this Solingen maker (as yet unidentified) probably used this tradition in marking the blade. The doves were a favored Christian symbol sometimes seen on Hungarian blades with magic or talismanic symbols, and used in other similar motif.

Interesting to see these blades occurring in number, and I hope we might see other examples and especially what type blades they are on.
All best regards,
JIm
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[fernando]

Old 20th March 2014, 07:03 AM #260

Posted by:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman,
on the border with the UAE


Originally Posted by Matchlock
Hi Ibrahiim,
Though this is not my field, I hope I can clarify your query.

There is a recent book in German by Jürg Meier: Vivat Hollandia - zur Geschichte der Schweizer in holländischen Diensten 1740-1795. Griffwaffen und Uniformen. 2008.

The author describes the use of both edged weapons and uniforms of Swiss soldiers serving for the Netherlands. Thus your sword with that inscription dedicated to the Netherlands must be of Swiss make between 1740 and 1795.
The #4 and combined sign both stand for the respective unit; for an identification of the latter I am certain we do have some experts.


Best,
Michael (Quote)

Salaams Michael ~ Thank you for your great reply.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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[fernando]

#261

Posted by:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Jim and thank you very much for your reply... I shall try to expand on the blade details...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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[fernando]

Old 19th April 2015, 03:55 PM #262


Posred by:
Jens Nordlunde
Member

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe

I know it is seldom you see an Indian sword here, but this is to show how marks were copied.
The gauntlet is made of wootz, and the blade is very flexible, but it is Indian made.


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