Bitten by the Keris Bug

[Jean]

Originally Posted by kai

I agree, Jean. (The copious use of lacquer doesn't help either.)

I guess you wanted to include the hilt from post #19, too...

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai and David,
Yes, I meant the hilts from posts #17, 18, and 19 indeed!
Regards

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Kai and David,
Yes, I meant the hilts from posts #17, 18, and 19 indeed!
Regards

Hello Kai, David and Jean! May I request for more photos of better quality versions of this hilt for reference? I would like to learn the standards. I'm also very tempted to go shopping for a hilt as a results of this discussion. Cheers!

F. de Luzon

[David]

Well, i don't really mean to throw any gasoline on the name game fire, but if we are to accept Spirit of Wood as any kind of authoritative source, the hilt on this keris in question as well as the examples supplied by Kai and Laowang are much closer in form to what Noor & Khoo refer to as "Pipit Teling", shown at the top of page 134. This hilt has the longer neck we are seeing in the examples presented here. It is specifically described as originating in Terengganu. What they call "Anak Ayam" is shown of page 136, a shorter neck with a much more pronounce protruding top fin. Since the name "Pipit" refers to a sparrow and the name "Anak Ayam" refers to a baby chicken (chick) this visually makes a whole lot more sense to me as the one they describe as "Pipit Teling" has much more of a sparrow form and what they describe as "Anak Ayam" looks much more like a baby chick.
Of course, if you google "Anak Ayam Teleng" you will find that there is great confusion out there in the market place as to the proper names for these hilts. I find numerous examples of sellers who describe the Northern Jawa Demam, which apparently is now known to many as "pekaka", as "Anak Ayam". Now, we do know that at one time "pekaka" (or possibly "perkaka") once referred to the tajong hilts due to their similarity with the kingfisher bird. How long will it be before all these names morph once again? If sellers persistently refer to hilts by names that once meant something else, how long before that becomes the norm and these designations shift? This is the crux of the problem with this name game IMHO.

[kai]

The example shown in post #9 is the only one of this type in my collection. If you use the forum search function, "anak ayam teleng" or "pipit teleng" should yield some more hits.

Apart from the characteristic proportions in Terengganu style (of antique hilts), you also can utilize your experience with Moro pieces regarding carving workmanship and choice of wood.


Before you embark on a shopping spree, please post a close-up of the scabbard crosspiece (full frontal view)!


BTW, the mentioned book "Spirit of Wood" is a must-have reference that nicely translates to other cultures within the Malayan realm. Out of print though - it's really worth to keep searching online bookstores and to wait for an affordable offer.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

The example shown in post #9 is the only one of this type in my collection. If you use the forum search function, "anak ayam teleng" or "pipit teleng" should yield some more hits.

Kai, you seem to be alluding to the notion that "anak ayam teleng" and "pipit teleng" are the same hilt form. I have encountered this belief before and in fact the one example i have in my collection of what "Spirit of Wood" calls "pipit teleng" was actually called by both of these names in the sales description. However, if you follow through on what i stated in my last post, Noor & Khoo clearly distinguish these two names as completely different hilt forms in Spirit of Wood.

[A. G. Maisey]

I went to Jawa for the first time in the late 1960's. One of my objectives was to try to learn a little about keris, and of course to add to my collection. I found keris everywhere, in markets, used as trade marks, in museums, used in dress by virtually every man when he dressed formally.

In the mid 1970's I decided that I really wanted to get involved in intensive keris study, but I was undecided as to whether I should go to the Malay Peninsula for this, or whether I should continue with my visits to Jawa.

I investigated the keris situation in the area of Malaysia that was comprised of Old Malaya, and what I discovered was that a combination of the British presence, very aggressive Islam, and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil.

I decided that it would simply be too hard to try to learn anything at all about the keris in Malaysia, so I concentrated my attention on Jawa and to a slightly lesser extent on Bali. In retrospect it was very fortunate that I did so.

During the 1970's keris culture in Jawa got a shot in the arm, when the efforts of several people:- Deitrich Drescher, Garrett & Bronwen Solyom, Panembahan Harjonegoro ( he was not a Panembahan at that time) Djeno Harumbrojo and his brothers, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo, Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo, saw a revival in keris culture in Jawa.

This revival was accelerated by economic and societal conditions in Jawa, right up until the present time. The Javanese keris culture has now returned to a vibrant part of the overall societal structure.

In Bali the revival was not so aggressive, and probably did not start to really move until about 20 years ago.

However, in Malaysia it is very difficult to identify exactly when there was a revival of interest in the keris, and just what the extent of this is, even today. Yes, there is an awareness, but the impression I gain from the people I correspond with in Malaysia is that the keris movement there is still feeling its way, and that if there ever was a deep cultural knowledge of keris in the past, this has pretty much been lost because of the social conditions I referred to earlier.

It has even been said to me by more than one person living in Malaysia that the keris culture in present day Malaysia has very little to do with keris and more to do with social climbing. It has also been remarked that people raise their own societal position by pretending to have "secret knowledge" when in fact they themselves are inventing this knowledge.

There can be not the smallest doubt that the core of keris culture is to be found in Jawa, and since Jawa is where the keris originated, and where the culture has never died, this is as it should be. However, although I do focus my attention on Jawa, I would be more than willing to gather information from some other areas if I were to be convinced that the information I was able to gather was genuine, old, grassroots information.

Regrettably my efforts to gather information of this quality have invariably failed and investigation has indicated that the information I have gathered from, amongst other places, Malaysia, has almost invariably been of quite recent origin.

This is one of the reasons for my disinterest in keris from outside the Heartland of Keris Culture :- Jawa/Bali.

Personally I look askance at any information in relation to keris that has originated in present-day Malaysia. Possibly some things might be accurate, but then how can that be verified? If some things are modern inventions how many of these modern inventions are there? How do we differentiate between the true and the false?

Perhaps 30 or 40 years of continuing investigation, using the audit approach might be able to give us some answers, but at the present time there are too many unanswered questions for any certainty to be attached to any information coming out of Malaysia.

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I went to Jawa for the first time in the late 1960's. One of my objectives was to try to learn a little about keris, and of course to add to my collection. I found keris everywhere, in markets, used as trade marks, in museums, used in dress by virtually every man when he dressed formally.

In the mid 1970's I decided that I really wanted to get involved in intensive keris study, but I was undecided as to whether I should go to the Malay Peninsula for this, or whether I should continue with my visits to Jawa.

I investigated the keris situation in the area of Malaysia that was comprised of Old Malaya, and what I discovered was that a combination of the British presence, very aggressive Islam, and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil.

I decided that it would simply be too hard to try to learn anything at all about the keris in Malaysia, so I concentrated my attention on Jawa and to a slightly lesser extent on Bali. In retrospect it was very fortunate that I did so.

During the 1970's keris culture in Jawa got a shot in the arm, when the efforts of several people:- Deitrich Drescher, Garrett & Bronwen Solyom, Panembahan Harjonegoro ( he was not a Panembahan at that time) Djeno Harumbrojo and his brothers, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo, Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo, saw a revival in keris culture in Jawa.

This revival was accelerated by economic and societal conditions in Jawa, right up until the present time. The Javanese keris culture has now returned to a vibrant part of the overall societal structure.

In Bali the revival was not so aggressive, and probably did not start to really move until about 20 years ago.

However, in Malaysia it is very difficult to identify exactly when there was a revival of interest in the keris, and just what the extent of this is, even today. Yes, there is an awareness, but the impression I gain from the people I correspond with in Malaysia is that the keris movement there is still feeling its way, and that if there ever was a deep cultural knowledge of keris in the past, this has pretty much been lost because of the social conditions I referred to earlier.

It has even been said to me by more than one person living in Malaysia that the keris culture in present day Malaysia has very little to do with keris and more to do with social climbing. It has also been remarked that people raise their own societal position by pretending to have "secret knowledge" when in fact they themselves are inventing this knowledge.

There can be not the smallest doubt that the core of keris culture is to be found in Jawa, and since Jawa is where the keris originated, and where the culture has never died, this is as it should be. However, although I do focus my attention on Jawa, I would be more than willing to gather information from some other areas if I were to be convinced that the information I was able to gather was genuine, old, grassroots information.

Regrettably my efforts to gather information of this quality have invariably failed and investigation has indicated that the information I have gathered from, amongst other places, Malaysia, has almost invariably been of quite recent origin.

This is one of the reasons for my disinterest in keris from outside the Heartland of Keris Culture :- Jawa/Bali.

Personally I look askance at any information in relation to keris that has originated in present-day Malaysia. Possibly some things might be accurate, but then how can that be verified? If some things are modern inventions how many of these modern inventions are there? How do we differentiate between the true and the false?

Perhaps 30 or 40 years of continuing investigation, using the audit approach might be able to give us some answers, but at the present time there are too many unanswered questions for any certainty to be attached to any information coming out of Malaysia.

A.G. Maisey,

Your passion for research is truly admirable. I am inspired to study the Moro kris in the same manner as you've studied the Jawa/Bali keris. I doubt however if I will have the same opportunities as you've had. I will nonetheless try my best. Hopefully, one day I can publish a book on the Moro kris.

Your knowledge is very impressive. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the keris Melayu!

F. de Luzon

[David]

Just curious...does no one care to comment on my observation that according to Spirit of Wood "anak ayam teleng" and "pipit teleng" are two completely different hilt forms, with "pipit teleng" being the form present on the keris in question.

[kai]

Hello Alan,

I'm not questioning your general line of reasoning (and certainly not the choices you made). I hope you bear with me for the fun of it.

I investigated the keris situation in the area of Malaysia that was comprised of Old Malaya, and what I discovered was that a combination of the British presence, very aggressive Islam, and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil.

Ignoring the different time points, would it be really be that much off to state the following for the current situation in Indonesia and most of Java?
"I investigated the keris situation in the area of Indonesia that was comprised of Netherland's East India, and what I discovered was that a combination of the Dutch [and Japanese] presence, very aggressive Islam (maybe let's call this increasing Wahabite influence), and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil."

Sure, there are some very knowlegeable people from the heart of Jawa still extant. But how much do they really relate to the keris culture(s) as seen/practised by (major sections of) the general public?

It has even been said to me by more than one person living in Malaysia that the keris culture in present day Malaysia has very little to do with keris and more to do with social climbing. It has also been remarked that people raise their own societal position by pretending to have "secret knowledge" when in fact they themselves are inventing this knowledge.

Considering how the tangguh system got pretty much corrupted, etc. pp., not really unheard of on Java, too, isn't it? In an urban setting, is Kuala Lumpur so much different from, say, Jakarta these days? It's usually more the backwaters where traditions are kept alive in a post-colonial setting.

I'm not contesting that the conditions in Malaya have been more problematic for traditional knowledge to survive (no long-standing center of gravity for keris culture with many smaller sultanates; earlier loss of their importance; considerable proportion of the population of Tamil and Chinese descent; traditionally high mobility of the populations; increasing Thai influence in Pattani; and political turmoil in northern Malaysia).

Regards,
Kai

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by kai

The example shown in post #9 is the only one of this type in my collection. If you use the forum search function, "anak ayam teleng" or "pipit teleng" should yield some more hits.

Apart from the characteristic proportions in Terengganu style (of antique hilts), you also can utilize your experience with Moro pieces regarding carving workmanship and choice of wood.


Before you embark on a shopping spree, please post a close-up of the scabbard crosspiece (full frontal view)!


BTW, the mentioned book "Spirit of Wood" is a must-have reference that nicely translates to other cultures within the Malayan realm. Out of print though - it's really worth to keep searching online bookstores and to wait for an affordable offer.

Regards,
Kai

Thanks for your advise Kai! I checked using forum search and I now understand what you mean. The hilt attached to this keris does indeed look less refined than some of the examples. Aside from the carving, the quality of the varnish also makes a big difference.

While I try to apply what I know about the Moro kris in assessing kerises, I find that it is quite difficult to find similarities. There are shared terms and motifs but I'm beginning to agree with the observation of others that the Moro Kris is a "different animal."

Moro kris hilts are "defined" by the hilt wrapping (cord, silver, brass, gold, etc.) and it's pommel shape/material (Kakatua, horse hoof, bulb etc./wood, ivory, horn, etc) unlike the keris melayu hilt that is shaped out of a solid piece of wood. Moro kris hilts are also distinct from that of the keris and Malay Sundang, with the absence of the mendak in Moro pieces.

I have attached the photos of the scabbard crosspiece as you requested. I will also keep my eyes open for "Spirit of Wood." Again, thanks for your advise. I value you comments.

Warm regards,

F. de Luzon

[Laowang]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

Hello Kai, David and Jean! May I request for more photos of better quality versions of this hilt for reference? I would like to learn the standards. I'm also very tempted to go shopping for a hilt as a results of this discussion. Cheers!

F. de Luzon

A version of this hilt form that was discussed on the forum previously here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3055