PALEMBANG HILT AND KERIS

David · 9th June 2014, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Other Western authors such as Karsten S. Jensen also attribute this type of hilt to Durga but he refers to Martin Kerner indeed (see book Keris-Griffe/ Museum Rietberg Zurich page 60).
Vanna Ghiringhelli attributes the origin of this hilt to Bengkulu but there may be various types indeed. Anyway let us adopt the name putri malu which seems more adequate!

I agree that the name "Durga hilt" should be retired. With all due respect to Jensen and Kerner, i do not believe either of these gentlemen have ever presented any solid evidence that these hilts were ever meant to represent Durga and continuing to refer to them as such is only a misdirection for any further research and understanding of the form. While this is the first time i have heard the term "putri malu", it does at least seem to be coming from a source(s) within the culture as opposed to without and will probably serve us better, at least for the time being.

Loedjoe · 12th June 2014, 09:08 AM

Dear ganjawulung

Many thanks for your response. Let us know when you are able to give details of the book - it sounds as though it will be of great interest, and I would also like to add it to my bibliography of Indonesian weapons, eventually.

Loedjoe was chosen as a forum name, from loedjoe alang, simply as one of my favourite types of Sumatran weapon - but very difficult to find examples of it available!

Best wishes, Loedjoe

ganjawulung · 12th June 2014, 01:35 PM

Dear Loedjoe,

I guess your name is already there must be a relationship with Loedjoe Alang. It's the same. I also really liked Loedjoe Alang, and I'm lucky I got two pieces of loedjoes, both blades without a flaw. And incidentally both wearing different hulu or hilt. The one type of "hulu rumpung" (more simple type), the other one "hulu lunkee rusa" type. Exactly similar with the two examples in the book "Traditional Weapons" of Zonneveld. Unfortunately, I can not upload here ...

Ganjawulung

Loedjoe · 13th June 2014, 07:45 PM

Dear Ganjawulung

Wonderful that you have two examples of this rare type; I particularly like the "hulu lunkee rusa" one in Van Zonneveld.

Best wishes, Loedjoe

ganjawulung · 14th June 2014, 05:32 AM

Dear Jean, Gustav, Sajen and Loedjoe,

One more example of a Lampung keris hilt, they commonly refer to as "hulu luday" (luday hilt). Not only on the keris hilt alone, there are ornaments of "luday" or a kind of snake - which, according to Lampung traditional belief - just living only in the deep river bottom. But also be decorated in traditional houses of Lampung poles. It is small serpent, but according to the myth, can turn into a big snake. Some call it, "luday" is the origin of symbolization "local naga" of Sumatra.

Magical creatures "luday" also exist in Palembang keris hilts. At first glance a bird-like figure. But actually it is snake figure. May be differed from the description of the creature's eyes.

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 14th June 2014, 05:46 AM

Dear David,

Thank you for the recommendation about the "Putri Malu" hilt. Hopefully not considered to negate the knowledge that has long been believed. I'm just trying to express some new idea I got from the original Lampung and Palembang people I know.

Thank you David,
Ganjawulung

Loedjoe · 14th June 2014, 09:29 AM

Thank you very much for the new information, both about putri malu, and the hulu luday - very interesting.

Jean · 14th June 2014, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Jean, Gustav, Sajen and Loedjoe,

One more example of a Lampung keris hilt, they commonly refer to as "hulu luday" (luday hilt). Not only on the keris hilt alone, there are ornaments of "luday" or a kind of snake - which, according to Lampung traditional belief - just living only in the deep river bottom. But also be decorated in traditional houses of Lampung poles. It is small serpent, but according to the myth, can turn into a big snake. Some call it, "luday" is the origin of symbolization "local naga" of Sumatra.

Magical creatures "luday" also exist in Palembang keris hilts. At first glance a bird-like figure. But actually it is snake figure. May be differed from the description of the creature's eyes.

Ganjawulung

Dear Pak Ganja,
Thank you again for the very interesting and new information from the local sources!
I am frankly surprised to learn that this type of hilt originates from Lampung and not Palembang, especially the specimen on the left which has an identical style of fine & deep carving as the small JD hilts from Palembang? And what about the origin of the variant types shown by Moshah in post #15 and Sajen in posts #27, 28, and 30? I am showing 2 more pieces just for reference.
Best regards

ganjawulung · 14th June 2014, 02:17 PM

Dear Jean,

Thank you, Jean, for the correction. You are correct, that the "wearing crested" hilt is called "hulu burung", a Palembang hilt. Not "hulu luday" from Lampung or serpent hilt. The non-crested hilt, it is called " hulu luday". I've asked my Palembang friend, and he said the Palembang one is simply called "hulu burung". While it is true that "hulu luday" is Lampung hilt.

The difference that can be observed from the second hilt, in addition to the crested, also in his eyes. That "hulu luday" is more like a serpent's eyes, rather than a bird's eye ....

Once again, thank you for the correction. Hopefully Shahrial Alamshah will add more information on this Palembang and Lampung hilts...

Ganjawulung

12th June 2014, 01:35 PM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Luju Alang Dear Loedjoe, I guess your name is already there must be a relationship with Loedjoe Alang. It's the same. I also really liked Loedjoe Alang, and I'm lucky I got two pieces of loedjoes, both blades without a flaw. And incidentally both wearing different hulu or hilt. The one type of "hulu rumpung" (more simple type), the other one "hulu lunkee rusa" type. Exactly similar with the two examples in the book "Traditional Weapons" of Zonneveld. Unfortunately, I can not upload here ... Ganjawulung

14th June 2014, 05:32 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Hulu "luday"... Dear Jean, Gustav, Sajen and Loedjoe, One more example of a Lampung keris hilt, they commonly refer to as "hulu luday" (luday hilt). Not only on the keris hilt alone, there are ornaments of "luday" or a kind of snake - which, according to Lampung traditional belief - just living only in the deep river bottom. But also be decorated in traditional houses of Lampung poles. It is small serpent, but according to the myth, can turn into a big snake. Some call it, "luday" is the origin of symbolization "local naga" of Sumatra. Magical creatures "luday" also exist in Palembang keris hilts. At first glance a bird-like figure. But actually it is snake figure. May be differed from the description of the creature's eyes. Ganjawulung Attached Images

14th June 2014, 02:17 PM	#9
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Yes, Lampung and Palembang.... Dear Jean, Thank you, Jean, for the correction. You are correct, that the "wearing crested" hilt is called "hulu burung", a Palembang hilt. Not "hulu luday" from Lampung or serpent hilt. The non-crested hilt, it is called " hulu luday". I've asked my Palembang friend, and he said the Palembang one is simply called "hulu burung". While it is true that "hulu luday" is Lampung hilt. The difference that can be observed from the second hilt, in addition to the crested, also in his eyes. That "hulu luday" is more like a serpent's eyes, rather than a bird's eye .... Once again, thank you for the correction. Hopefully Shahrial Alamshah will add more information on this Palembang and Lampung hilts... Ganjawulung

12th June 2014, 09:08 AM	#2
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Dear ganjawulung Many thanks for your response. Let us know when you are able to give details of the book - it sounds as though it will be of great interest, and I would also like to add it to my bibliography of Indonesian weapons, eventually. Loedjoe was chosen as a forum name, from loedjoe alang, simply as one of my favourite types of Sumatran weapon - but very difficult to find examples of it available! Best wishes, Loedjoe

13th June 2014, 07:45 PM	#4
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Dear Ganjawulung Wonderful that you have two examples of this rare type; I particularly like the "hulu lunkee rusa" one in Van Zonneveld. Best wishes, Loedjoe

14th June 2014, 05:46 AM	#6
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Dear David, Thank you for the recommendation about the "Putri Malu" hilt. Hopefully not considered to negate the knowledge that has long been believed. I'm just trying to express some new idea I got from the original Lampung and Palembang people I know. Thank you David, Ganjawulung

14th June 2014, 09:29 AM	#7
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Thank you very much for the new information, both about putri malu, and the hulu luday - very interesting.