VOC BLADES: A comprehensive look

[Sajen]

Here some new pictures of my Timor sword. There is a marking "Hembrug" on the blade. I have acquired this sword some years ago via ebay, see the link in up. When I get this sword the marking was covered by rust, so I think it's an original marking. But sadly nothing else is known about it's provenance but I don't have doubts about it's originality.

[Sajen]

Just get the information from a member that a Hembrug blade isn't a VOC blade, so my sword don't add any information to this thread. VOC blades are much older as this Hembrug blade. Sorry for any confusion!

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Just get the information from a member that a Hembrug blade isn't a VOC blade, so my sword don't add any information to this thread. VOC blades are much older as this Hembrug blade. Sorry for any confusion!

It's good bringing this one up Detlef.
It seemed that trade blades were used also in the latter period (after the
VOC time).

Kind regards,
Maurice

[asomotif]

A few years ago I read a book "De jacht op sandelhout" by Arend de Roever (2002).
It describes how the VOC forced themselves into the Sandalwood trade from Timor. The VOC was present on Timor from 1613 till 1799.
The trade was a complex system of all kinds of raw materials and semi finished products that where traded by the VOC between Europe, Indonesia, but also China, Japan, India.

Sandalwood was brought from Timor to China and India and Bali.
It describes also that sword blades where placed in the ships sailing from Europe as trade material and also serving as ballast.

Interestingly, a lot of weapons that I recall with VOC blades are timor swords. Sorry Maurice, This is getting close to speculation.

Best regards,
Willem

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by asomotif

A few years ago I read a book "De jacht op sandelhout" by Arend de Roever (2002).
It describes how the VOC forced themselves into the Sandalwood trade from Timor. The VOC was present on Timor from 1613 till 1799.
The trade was a complex system of all kinds of raw materials and semi finished products that where traded by the VOC between Europe, Indonesia, but also China, Japan, India.

Sandalwood was brought from Timor to China and India and Bali.
It describes also that sword blades where placed in the ships sailing from Europe as trade material and also serving as ballast.

Interestingly, a lot of weapons that I recall with VOC blades are timor swords. Sorry Maurice, This is getting close to speculation.

Best regards,
Willem

Thank you Willem for bringing it up.

Indeed very strange that most of the VOC blades are timor swords.
I don't know about Timor a lot, did they had own blacksmiths? If not that could be a reason for finding there so many trade blades.

However I have also seen VOC blades on old Preanger swords. Gavin had one nice gobang for sale with dated VOC blade recently.
Also I've seen a dated VOC blade on a Bandjermasin keris, and on a lanceblade from Borneo, which is in the Bronbeek museum now.

However all had not the right provenance to prove these really were old tradingblades from the VOC.

Maurice

[kai]

Hello Maurice,

Indeed very strange that most of the VOC blades are timor swords.
I don't know about Timor a lot, did they had own blacksmiths? If not that could be a reason for finding there so many trade blades.

This and the heavy VOC involvement makes it likely to find quite some of these there; I do seem to remember also examples from the greater Timor region (which may have been diffusing out of Timor proper).

However I have also seen VOC blades on old Preanger swords. Gavin had one nice gobang for sale with dated VOC blade recently.
Also I've seen a dated VOC blade on a Bandjermasin keris, and on a lanceblade from Borneo, which is in the Bronbeek museum now.

I believe these are quite widespread: I've seen several out of Sumatra and also central Java.

However all had not the right provenance to prove these really were old tradingblades from the VOC.

I am not sure what kind of provenance would be needed for an ethnographic combo to prove the point? Even when registered into any European nobility collection during the VOC period, this still could be a local "fake" of a possibly respected quality mark.

I know that real VOC swords are a kind of holy grail of Dutch/international military sword collectors and there certainly are a lot of fakes on the market.

However, ethnographic pieces don't enter those collecting circles AFAIK and among ethnographic collectors the VOC mark may be an interesting addition but it won't influence the usually moderate prices in such a way that convincing fakes would be economically lucrative. These are old and worn blades which doesn't make studying marks really easy. However, these are also not easy to apply fake stamps in recent times. It's not that we're looking at some sh***r c**l repros... Sorry, Jim, couldn't resist!

In most cases, experienced collectors are quite good at differentiating locally crafted blades (usually preferred) from European steel or trade blades. I'd suggest to compile all VOC-marked blades: Any VOC marks on blades apparently made from imported steel (including genuine VOC trade blades) should be carefully analyzed; very valuable would be marks from genuine VOC swords - there must be a few in Dutch musea? If we were to come across VOC marks on obviously locally crafted blades, these would make a good comparision, too! This may be a bit like reverse engineering - let's give it a try though!

Will try to load up some examples in the following days if time permits.

Regards,
Kai

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Maurice,


This and the heavy VOC involvement makes it likely to find quite some of these there; I do seem to remember also examples from the greater Timor region (which may have been diffusing out of Timor proper).



I believe these are quite widespread: I've seen several out of Sumatra and also central Java.



I am not sure what kind of provenance would be needed for an ethnographic combo to prove the point? Even when registered into any European nobility collection during the VOC period, this still could be a local "fake" of a possibly respected quality mark.

I know that real VOC swords are a kind of holy grail of Dutch/international military sword collectors and there certainly are a lot of fakes on the market.

However, ethnographic pieces don't enter those collecting circles AFAIK and among ethnographic collectors the VOC mark may be an interesting addition but it won't influence the usually moderate prices in such a way that convincing fakes would be economically lucrative. These are old and worn blades which doesn't make studying marks really easy. However, these are also not easy to apply fake stamps in recent times. It's not that we're looking at some sh***r c**l repros... Sorry, Jim, couldn't resist!

In most cases, experienced collectors are quite good at differentiating locally crafted blades (usually preferred) from European steel or trade blades. I'd suggest to compile all VOC-marked blades: Any VOC marks on blades apparently made from imported steel (including genuine VOC trade blades) should be carefully analyzed; very valuable would be marks from genuine VOC swords - there must be a few in Dutch musea? If we were to come across VOC marks on obviously locally crafted blades, these would make a good comparision, too! This may be a bit like reverse engineering - let's give it a try though!

Will try to load up some examples in the following days if time permits.

Regards,
Kai

Salaams Kai ... I must say yours is Excellent input ! I was just viewing some data on a sold auction Kastane but no photo ... the write up is interesting...
from Christies LondonQuote"Lot Description A DUTCH EAST INDIA COMPANY SWORD, dated 1757, with Ceylonese hilt, comprising a curved, single-edged blade stamped on both faces with the mark of the Amsterdam office of the V.O.C. and the year 1757; hilt of a Ceylonese kastane sword, comprising a carved wooden grip with lion's head pommed, metal ferrule decorated with foliage, and a brass knuckleguard (quillon A/F)
84.5cm. long

Lot Notes; In areas formely controlled by the Dutch VOC, many of its sword blades were traded and mounted with indigenous hilts by the native people, and sometimes worn until the 20th Century Lot Description A DUTCH EAST INDIA COMPANY SWORD, dated 1757, with Ceylonese hilt, comprising a curved, single-edged blade stamped on both faces with the mark of the Amsterdam office of the V.O.C. and the year 1757; hilt of a Ceylonese kastane sword, comprising a carved wooden grip with lion's head pommed, metal ferrule decorated with foliage, and a brass knuckleguard". Unquote.

In the sword above, the VOC mark would have been accompanied by the A mark denoting Amsterdam...and interestingly the write up mentions the traded function of goods in Sri Lanka at that time... They didn't have a useable monetary system but bartered for everything... The only people who had money... were the Chieftains/ Royalty (but not exclusively) who actually hoarded coin...Some traders and especially the Moors did actually use money but the general effect of the mass of the population using bartering and the tendency of hoarding coin by VIP's had the effect of fossilising the money supply..This underpins the Caste system in which no monetary system was needed... craftsmen didn't get wages...and the Territorial Army for example had duty to serve the ruler in times of strife sewn into their agreement to work on the land...and again for which goods could be exchanged ... not money; The main bartering instrument being grain. See http://www.cmb.ac.lk/administration/...lph_Pieris.pdf

It is of further interest that neither the Portuguese nor the English stamped blades (except stamped bayonets by EIC) but the Dutch did stamp sword blades using the capital first letter of the factory or warehouse where the stamp was done ...e.g. Amsterdam, Rotterdam etc...and that ceramics were used as trade items for swapping/bartering for the important spices of the region in particular Cinnamon/spices..particularly by the Dutch.

For interest see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=109394

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

VOC Warehouse in Amsterdam.

[Maurice]

Hello Kai,

I understand what's your point here, and I agree about that!

Originally Posted by kai

I believe these are quite widespread: I've seen several out of Sumatra and also central Java.

They are certainly widespread, but most of the time it is a select kind of swords which have those VOC blades. Like the Timor swords, or the Preanger gobangs (Central Javanese), or the Bandjermasin area.

Originally Posted by kai

I am not sure what kind of provenance would be needed for an ethnographic combo to prove the point? Even when registered into any European nobility collection during the VOC period, this still could be a local "fake" of a possibly respected quality mark.

If it was local, I think it would have been done another way. They would not use these kind of stamps to mark the blades, but it would be a more elegently and smoothly writing/decoration in the blade.

Originally Posted by kai

I know that real VOC swords are a kind of holy grail of Dutch/international military sword collectors and there certainly are a lot of fakes on the market.

Yes, I hope to have one in future myself. But first want to do more research.

Originally Posted by kai

very valuable would be marks from genuine VOC swords - there must be a few in Dutch musea? If we were to come across VOC marks on obviously locally crafted blades, these would make a good comparision, too! This may be a bit like reverse engineering - let's give it a try though!

I will try finding some genuine VOC swords. But the ones I've seen in Dutch museums didn't had the VOC mark. Though I've seen one in the former Legermuseum in Delft, but don't know anymore what the provenance of that sword was.

Originally Posted by kai

Will try to load up some examples in the following days if time permits.

OK let's make this a project of us all! Add images, even without provenance, to discuss and compare, for the moment we will find a good provenanced old genuine one.

Regards,
Maurice