VOC BLADES: A comprehensive look

Maurice · 15th February 2014, 05:18 PM

Good idea to give this a good research.
Once I tried to research these VOC blades, but till now I didn't find anything what was usefull enough to start with. Also the pieces I've found, didn't had the right provenance to take the VOC marks serious.

But one thing I know. Blades with VOC on it will sell a lot better against a much higher price. So you can imagine that this had been stamped later on many blades to get it more interesting!

I hope somebody has good information for us, but hopefully not guesses, but marks supported with any kind of interesting provenance.

Allready a friendcollector and I tried to get more information in a Dutch museumlibrary, to find anything about these kind of stamps.
However we didn't succeed than, and after that we didn't had time to pick this up again.

Thanks for opening this interesting thread Jim!
Hopefully we can find something interesting...

Maurice

asomotif · 15th February 2014, 10:32 PM

Interesting subject.

It would help if the forum's search machine would support a search for "VOC Blade"

Jim McDougall · 16th February 2014, 04:15 AM

Thank you so much for the support guys!!! All of you are in key position to learn more on these blades, and asomotif has noted, hopefully this thread will archive the topic of the VOC blades for future researches as well.
The goal here is to review more on these blades both as occurring on issued or regulation swords and cutlasses as well as how they diffused into the various colonial trade spheres.
Detlef, looking forward to photos!
Maurice great points on the faking of these kinds of marks, and your efforts to find more in that library are much appreciated, we always keep at it! so often more can be found at later attempts.

All the best,
JIm

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th February 2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much for the support guys!!! All of you are in key position to learn more on these blades, and asomotif has noted, hopefully this thread will archive the topic of the VOC blades for future researches as well.
The goal here is to review more on these blades both as occurring on issued or regulation swords and cutlasses as well as how they diffused into the various colonial trade spheres.
Detlef, looking forward to photos!
Maurice great points on the faking of these kinds of marks, and your efforts to find more in that library are much appreciated, we always keep at it! so often more can be found at later attempts.

All the best,
JIm

Salaams Jim, I was amazed that EIC simply did not stamp sword blades but did so on gunpowder weapons and bayonets.. For the latter see http://www.armsregister.com/articles...ore_musket.pdf
The Dutch, as you state did... and many examples exist on web and forum.

I have not found any Kastane with Portuguese stamps... and reason that there were none because of the nature of the weapon which was a purebred native blade at the time of the Portuguese influx.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Maurice · 16th February 2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The Dutch, as you state did... and many examples exist on web and forum.

Yes many examples around. But which ones are fake, and which ones are real? Are there real VOC stamps on blades?
I need to see that on provenanced pieces, not on the examples which I can find on the internet.

If you have some with provenance, can you post pictures here?
I will if I find any...

Regards,
Maurice

Sajen · 16th February 2014, 07:25 PM

Here some new pictures of my Timor sword. There is a marking "Hembrug" on the blade. I have acquired this sword some years ago via ebay, see the link in up. When I get this sword the marking was covered by rust, so I think it's an original marking. But sadly nothing else is known about it's provenance but I don't have doubts about it's originality.

Sajen · 16th February 2014, 08:12 PM

Just get the information from a member that a Hembrug blade isn't a VOC blade, so my sword don't add any information to this thread. VOC blades are much older as this Hembrug blade. Sorry for any confusion!

asomotif · 16th February 2014, 08:16 PM

A few years ago I read a book "De jacht op sandelhout" by Arend de Roever (2002).
It describes how the VOC forced themselves into the Sandalwood trade from Timor. The VOC was present on Timor from 1613 till 1799.
The trade was a complex system of all kinds of raw materials and semi finished products that where traded by the VOC between Europe, Indonesia, but also China, Japan, India.

Sandalwood was brought from Timor to China and India and Bali.
It describes also that sword blades where placed in the ships sailing from Europe as trade material and also serving as ballast.

Interestingly, a lot of weapons that I recall with VOC blades are timor swords. Sorry Maurice, This is getting close to speculation.

Best regards,
Willem

16th February 2014, 07:25 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,269	Here some new pictures of my Timor sword. There is a marking "Hembrug" on the blade. I have acquired this sword some years ago via ebay, see the link in up. When I get this sword the marking was covered by rust, so I think it's an original marking. But sadly nothing else is known about it's provenance but I don't have doubts about it's originality. Attached Images

15th February 2014, 05:18 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,456	Good idea to give this a good research. Once I tried to research these VOC blades, but till now I didn't find anything what was usefull enough to start with. Also the pieces I've found, didn't had the right provenance to take the VOC marks serious. But one thing I know. Blades with VOC on it will sell a lot better against a much higher price. So you can imagine that this had been stamped later on many blades to get it more interesting! I hope somebody has good information for us, but hopefully not guesses, but marks supported with any kind of interesting provenance. Allready a friendcollector and I tried to get more information in a Dutch museumlibrary, to find anything about these kind of stamps. However we didn't succeed than, and after that we didn't had time to pick this up again. Thanks for opening this interesting thread Jim! Hopefully we can find something interesting... Maurice

15th February 2014, 10:32 PM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Interesting subject. It would help if the forum's search machine would support a search for "VOC Blade"

16th February 2014, 04:15 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Thank you so much for the support guys!!! All of you are in key position to learn more on these blades, and asomotif has noted, hopefully this thread will archive the topic of the VOC blades for future researches as well. The goal here is to review more on these blades both as occurring on issued or regulation swords and cutlasses as well as how they diffused into the various colonial trade spheres. Detlef, looking forward to photos! Maurice great points on the faking of these kinds of marks, and your efforts to find more in that library are much appreciated, we always keep at it! so often more can be found at later attempts. All the best, JIm

16th February 2014, 08:12 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,269	Just get the information from a member that a Hembrug blade isn't a VOC blade, so my sword don't add any information to this thread. VOC blades are much older as this Hembrug blade. Sorry for any confusion!

16th February 2014, 08:16 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	A few years ago I read a book "De jacht op sandelhout" by Arend de Roever (2002). It describes how the VOC forced themselves into the Sandalwood trade from Timor. The VOC was present on Timor from 1613 till 1799. The trade was a complex system of all kinds of raw materials and semi finished products that where traded by the VOC between Europe, Indonesia, but also China, Japan, India. Sandalwood was brought from Timor to China and India and Bali. It describes also that sword blades where placed in the ships sailing from Europe as trade material and also serving as ballast. Interestingly, a lot of weapons that I recall with VOC blades are timor swords. Sorry Maurice, This is getting close to speculation. Best regards, Willem