Cavalry sabre with a parabolic blade

colin henshaw · 9th January 2014, 09:01 PM

Well, interesting to compare this type of European sword with the Ethiopian shotel - also decorative ? To strike behind an opponent's shield I expect...

terry1956 · 9th January 2014, 11:25 PM

Hi, these very curved bladed swords are a result of the Egyption campaign. Anything Egyption was high fashion here in the UK. I have in my collection an 1803 pattern with a very curved blade in this Egyption pattern.as a fighting weapon it would be totally useless.

Jim McDougall · 10th January 2014, 05:00 PM

Excellent note on the effect of the Egyptian campaigns on military fashion in England and in France as well, with regard to the case of the Mameluke officers sabres. I once had a M1803 Flank Company officers sabre which was in accord with the pattern, with the exception of the lionhead, which instead of familiar flowing mane had the lion with a sphinx type headdress . It did not have exceptionally curved blade though and I mention it strictly to the note on military fashion.

I am wondering if the deep curve might have been intended in concept for more effective slashing cuts in close quarters? though the idea is admittedly tenuous but needs to be considered as possible and observed in process of elimination.
I still think the fashion factor remains the most plausible, the drawing of these out of the scabbard issue not withstanding. Naturally if the sword is out before initiation of combat that is a moot point.

Burton (1884) speaks to the Ethiopian shotel in traditional form on p163, "...the shotel or Abyssinian sword is a direct descendant of the khopsh-falchion . Nothing is less handy than this gigantic sickle; the edge is inside, the grip is too small, and the difficulty of drawing the blade from the scabbard is considerable." Further describing derisively the blade of 37 inches along the arc and the weapon "..never belonging to a race of swordsmen".
It would seem that Burton, though predating the Napoleonic sabers by nearly two decades, certainly would reflect the view of staunchly traditional British swordsmen toward the effectiveness of such curved blades as shown in his narrative.
I think he would have been stunned by such dramatically 'fashionable' sabres, but as we know, times change.

fernando · 10th January 2014, 06:55 PM

I fully concur with the fashion opinion; and also accept the basic idea being brought from Egipt, like the Mameluke hilt ... and probably later exagerated by some, following the said fashion concept.
As for the flanking model suggestion i would definitely put it apart. If some flankers ae overcurved, some others are not, as overcurved are also the blades of other sabres, as seen here. Having not found any records on Portuguese flanker troops, i went through a publication of Spanish swords in that, the models of their Flanking Brigades have a 'normal' blade while, on the other hand, illustration of Officers sabres have blades with rather pronounced bow.
Also interesting is that, re-curving of swords is not only a practice of officers private commission. The author of the article pretends, in his perspective that, 1802 pattern for line cavalry munitions blades were manipulated, having them re-curved (SIC) for such officers sword model
(Juan L. Calvó)

9th January 2014, 09:01 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Well, interesting to compare this type of European sword with the Ethiopian shotel - also decorative ? To strike behind an opponent's shield I expect... Attached Images Last edited by colin henshaw; 9th January 2014 at 09:12 PM.

9th January 2014, 11:25 PM	#2
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	curved sword blade Hi, these very curved bladed swords are a result of the Egyption campaign. Anything Egyption was high fashion here in the UK. I have in my collection an 1803 pattern with a very curved blade in this Egyption pattern.as a fighting weapon it would be totally useless.

10th January 2014, 05:00 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Excellent note on the effect of the Egyptian campaigns on military fashion in England and in France as well, with regard to the case of the Mameluke officers sabres. I once had a M1803 Flank Company officers sabre which was in accord with the pattern, with the exception of the lionhead, which instead of familiar flowing mane had the lion with a sphinx type headdress . It did not have exceptionally curved blade though and I mention it strictly to the note on military fashion. I am wondering if the deep curve might have been intended in concept for more effective slashing cuts in close quarters? though the idea is admittedly tenuous but needs to be considered as possible and observed in process of elimination. I still think the fashion factor remains the most plausible, the drawing of these out of the scabbard issue not withstanding. Naturally if the sword is out before initiation of combat that is a moot point. Burton (1884) speaks to the Ethiopian shotel in traditional form on p163, "...the shotel or Abyssinian sword is a direct descendant of the khopsh-falchion . Nothing is less handy than this gigantic sickle; the edge is inside, the grip is too small, and the difficulty of drawing the blade from the scabbard is considerable." Further describing derisively the blade of 37 inches along the arc and the weapon "..never belonging to a race of swordsmen". It would seem that Burton, though predating the Napoleonic sabers by nearly two decades, certainly would reflect the view of staunchly traditional British swordsmen toward the effectiveness of such curved blades as shown in his narrative. I think he would have been stunned by such dramatically 'fashionable' sabres, but as we know, times change.

10th January 2014, 06:55 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I fully concur with the fashion opinion; and also accept the basic idea being brought from Egipt, like the Mameluke hilt ... and probably later exagerated by some, following the said fashion concept. As for the flanking model suggestion i would definitely put it apart. If some flankers ae overcurved, some others are not, as overcurved are also the blades of other sabres, as seen here. Having not found any records on Portuguese flanker troops, i went through a publication of Spanish swords in that, the models of their Flanking Brigades have a 'normal' blade while, on the other hand, illustration of Officers sabres have blades with rather pronounced bow. Also interesting is that, re-curving of swords is not only a practice of officers private commission. The author of the article pretends, in his perspective that, 1802 pattern for line cavalry munitions blades were manipulated, having them re-curved (SIC) for such officers sword model (Juan L. Calvó)