Noth African sword

CharlesS · 18th December 2013, 05:10 PM

Iain,

I think if we can imagine the original sword in the thread with its complete, undamaged stylized "I" hilt as in the version below it could easily fall into the s'boula category. It seems as if this sword's lower hilt, or guard, uses leather as covering where they would more typically be brass covered.

The hilt certainly seems closer to that to me than, say, a kaskara or takouba....don't you think so? Also note the mid hilt bolt that is generally universally seen on s'boulas and compare the zig-zag carving midway on that example to the carving on the wooden portion of the hilt below.

The blade is, indeed, wider than the example below, but it has been cut down, clearly. Perhaps it was an attempt to mimic the s'boula???

Iain · 18th December 2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Iain,

I think if we can imagine the original sword in the thread with its complete, undamaged stylized "I" hilt it could easily fall into the s'boula category. The hilt certainly seems closer to that to me than, say, a kaskara or takouba....don't you think so? Also note the mid hilt bolt that is generally universally seen on s'boulas.

Agree completely Charles. It's definitely from the Berber sphere. I see these pop up in French auctions from time to time, all with the same tip style. So it seems like an established type.

CharlesS · 18th December 2013, 05:35 PM

Just curious Iain....do they fetch very much at French auctions??? I am guessing not. The style in general won't win many blade beauty contests!

blue lander · 18th December 2013, 05:56 PM

One other thing - the hilt appears to be decorated on only one side. Here's two more pictures from the auction. It looks like the seller shipped it out yesterday so hopefully I'll have it in a week or two.

Iain · 18th December 2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

One other thing - the hilt appears to be decorated on only one side. Here's two more pictures from the auction. It looks like the seller shipped it out yesterday so hopefully I'll have it in a week or two.

I'm not overly familiar with these coastal arms (Moroccan etc.) but in other forms it's not unusual to see a "face" side intended to be displayed outwards and a plain reverse side. Seems to be the case here.

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2013, 06:21 PM

We crossed posts Iain

Iain · 18th December 2013, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Just curious Iain....do they fetch very much at French auctions??? I am guessing not. The style in general won't win many blade beauty contests!

Tends to be on the lower end of the spectrum. A simple style that seems to take advantage of available blades. Some seem a bit cobbled together, others more cohesive in terms of style. I'll try to dig up some photos of others.

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2013, 06:07 PM

It is interesting to see the great developing discussion here especially pertaining to the markings, which of course have been a key fascination of mine for more years than I can say. I am also glad to see agreement in my notes (post #5) suggesting the s'boula hilt connection, which as noted could place this refurbished blade in many regional contexts throughout the wide Berber sphere. As Charles has noted, the occurrence of a weapon in a certain place or with a particular ethnic or tribal individual does not necessarily establish that as its indigenous provenance. The diffusion of ethnographic weapons through trade, warfare and often nomadic movements makes such classifications not only typically unlikely, but profoundly speculative.

Returning to the markings, especially the 'man in the moon' (known as dukari in Saharan parlance usually in pairs on takouba and occasionally on some kaskara in Sudan)....I think it is well established that this image or device has been adopted rather universally in native symbolism. While the original 'moon' character was part of a type of talismanic motif that evolved from various occult and magical followings, believed to have originated probably in Spain, it was soon widely used in Germany.

As trade blades from Germany (the preponderance of volume) entered various centers and diffused into other regions via caravan routes, clearly the presence of such marks were emphasized by merchants to signify the quality of the blades. As these blades dispersed into tribal elements, the markings became often seen in the visual perspective of the folk religion symbolism. There can of course be many interpretations of what these might be as perceived temporally by these typically highly superstitious and not necessarily highly educated tribesmen.

What is key is that the presence of these symbols became a matter of imbuement rather than distinct imagery or iconography. What was important was what the marking or its presence was supposed to induce in the blade, not what it was necessarily supposed to be. Over time these typically paired 'man in the moon' became degenerated in form to the point of being unrecognizable, but still their placement served its purpose .

I think the occasion of these kinds of markings often appearing only on one side of the blade could signify apotropaic importance as protection from evil or malevolence was a prevalent concern in tribal cultures. The outer or 'exposed' face of the blade (sometimes scabbards as well) would have talismanic devices to ward off these forces. The flyssa is a good example of such geometric devices but it is on both blade faces. I think that the images in Briggs note similar mark grouping on a nimcha on one side only . On many Arab swords, the 'aghreb' (=scorpion) appears only on outer side to deflect evil eye.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 18th December 2013, 06:21 PM

Salaams all~Note to Library; I mentioned earlier a reference to Moroccan crosses similar to those at #1 being attributable to one tribal group; Wikipedia, Quote" Mulai Ahmed er Raisuni (Arabic: "مولاي أحمد الريسوني", known as Raisuli to most English speakers, also Raissoulli, Rais Uli and Raysuni) (b. 1871,[1] Zinat, Tétouan – d. April 1925,[2] Tamasint, Al Hoceima[3]) was a Sharif (descendant of Mohammed) and a leader of the Jebala tribal confederacy in Morocco at the turn of the 20th Century.

While regarded by foreigners and the Moroccan government as a brigand, some Moroccans, especially among the Jbala, considered him a heroic figure, fighting a repressive, corrupt government, while others considered him a thief. Historian David S. Woolman referred to Raisuni as "a combination Robin Hood, feudal baron and tyrannical bandit."[4]

He was considered by many as "The last of the Barbary Pirates" though Barbary Coast piracy had ended by the middle of the 19th century. On the other hand, according to Douglas Porch, an American historian, Raisuni was part of the rule rather than the exception in that every successful Moroccan politician at the time combined villainy with sainthood.[5]

He died in 1925 after having been captured and imprisoned by his rival Abd el Krim.Unquote.

The reference to which this link is associated is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 and shows a dagger with similar crosses.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

blue lander · 18th December 2013, 06:57 PM

Here's a picture from an old auction described as a "TOUAREG JIBOULA". The pattern on the hilt looks very similar to mine, and there's some similarities in the blade it seems too.

Here's a link to another thread with a similar knife, but much smaller:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=36293

Actually, if you google zanzibar sword or jiboula sword you can find lots of similar example. Most blades look like cut down larger blades with fullers going all the way to the tip, but on some the fullers stop right before the end of the blade. I wonder if these are locally made blades that were made to look like cut down European blades. I haven't seen any other jiboulas/s'boulas/zanzibar swords with any kind of maker's mark, though. That seems more common on Nimchas.

Also, do we think this blade was made in Germany for export, or was it once a European sword that made its way to Africa?

18th December 2013, 05:56 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	One other thing - the hilt appears to be decorated on only one side. Here's two more pictures from the auction. It looks like the seller shipped it out yesterday so hopefully I'll have it in a week or two. Attached Images

18th December 2013, 06:07 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	It is interesting to see the great developing discussion here especially pertaining to the markings, which of course have been a key fascination of mine for more years than I can say. I am also glad to see agreement in my notes (post #5) suggesting the s'boula hilt connection, which as noted could place this refurbished blade in many regional contexts throughout the wide Berber sphere. As Charles has noted, the occurrence of a weapon in a certain place or with a particular ethnic or tribal individual does not necessarily establish that as its indigenous provenance. The diffusion of ethnographic weapons through trade, warfare and often nomadic movements makes such classifications not only typically unlikely, but profoundly speculative. Returning to the markings, especially the 'man in the moon' (known as dukari in Saharan parlance usually in pairs on takouba and occasionally on some kaskara in Sudan)....I think it is well established that this image or device has been adopted rather universally in native symbolism. While the original 'moon' character was part of a type of talismanic motif that evolved from various occult and magical followings, believed to have originated probably in Spain, it was soon widely used in Germany. As trade blades from Germany (the preponderance of volume) entered various centers and diffused into other regions via caravan routes, clearly the presence of such marks were emphasized by merchants to signify the quality of the blades. As these blades dispersed into tribal elements, the markings became often seen in the visual perspective of the folk religion symbolism. There can of course be many interpretations of what these might be as perceived temporally by these typically highly superstitious and not necessarily highly educated tribesmen. What is key is that the presence of these symbols became a matter of imbuement rather than distinct imagery or iconography. What was important was what the marking or its presence was supposed to induce in the blade, not what it was necessarily supposed to be. Over time these typically paired 'man in the moon' became degenerated in form to the point of being unrecognizable, but still their placement served its purpose . I think the occasion of these kinds of markings often appearing only on one side of the blade could signify apotropaic importance as protection from evil or malevolence was a prevalent concern in tribal cultures. The outer or 'exposed' face of the blade (sometimes scabbards as well) would have talismanic devices to ward off these forces. The flyssa is a good example of such geometric devices but it is on both blade faces. I think that the images in Briggs note similar mark grouping on a nimcha on one side only . On many Arab swords, the 'aghreb' (=scorpion) appears only on outer side to deflect evil eye. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th December 2013 at 06:20 PM.

18th December 2013, 06:21 PM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all~Note to Library; I mentioned earlier a reference to Moroccan crosses similar to those at #1 being attributable to one tribal group; Wikipedia, Quote" Mulai Ahmed er Raisuni (Arabic: "مولاي أحمد الريسوني", known as Raisuli to most English speakers, also Raissoulli, Rais Uli and Raysuni) (b. 1871,[1] Zinat, Tétouan – d. April 1925,[2] Tamasint, Al Hoceima[3]) was a Sharif (descendant of Mohammed) and a leader of the Jebala tribal confederacy in Morocco at the turn of the 20th Century. While regarded by foreigners and the Moroccan government as a brigand, some Moroccans, especially among the Jbala, considered him a heroic figure, fighting a repressive, corrupt government, while others considered him a thief. Historian David S. Woolman referred to Raisuni as "a combination Robin Hood, feudal baron and tyrannical bandit."[4] He was considered by many as "The last of the Barbary Pirates" though Barbary Coast piracy had ended by the middle of the 19th century. On the other hand, according to Douglas Porch, an American historian, Raisuni was part of the rule rather than the exception in that every successful Moroccan politician at the time combined villainy with sainthood.[5] He died in 1925 after having been captured and imprisoned by his rival Abd el Krim.Unquote. The reference to which this link is associated is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 and shows a dagger with similar crosses. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 18th December 2013 at 06:52 PM.

18th December 2013, 06:57 PM	#10
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Here's a picture from an old auction described as a "TOUAREG JIBOULA". The pattern on the hilt looks very similar to mine, and there's some similarities in the blade it seems too. Here's a link to another thread with a similar knife, but much smaller: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=36293 Actually, if you google zanzibar sword or jiboula sword you can find lots of similar example. Most blades look like cut down larger blades with fullers going all the way to the tip, but on some the fullers stop right before the end of the blade. I wonder if these are locally made blades that were made to look like cut down European blades. I haven't seen any other jiboulas/s'boulas/zanzibar swords with any kind of maker's mark, though. That seems more common on Nimchas. Also, do we think this blade was made in Germany for export, or was it once a European sword that made its way to Africa? Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 18th December 2013 at 11:29 PM.

18th December 2013, 05:10 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Iain, I think if we can imagine the original sword in the thread with its complete, undamaged stylized "I" hilt as in the version below it could easily fall into the s'boula category. It seems as if this sword's lower hilt, or guard, uses leather as covering where they would more typically be brass covered. The hilt certainly seems closer to that to me than, say, a kaskara or takouba....don't you think so? Also note the mid hilt bolt that is generally universally seen on s'boulas and compare the zig-zag carving midway on that example to the carving on the wooden portion of the hilt below. The blade is, indeed, wider than the example below, but it has been cut down, clearly. Perhaps it was an attempt to mimic the s'boula??? Attached Images Last edited by CharlesS; 18th December 2013 at 05:31 PM.

18th December 2013, 05:35 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Just curious Iain....do they fetch very much at French auctions??? I am guessing not. The style in general won't win many blade beauty contests!