silver keris toli-toli ( comments pls)

Sajen · 29th May 2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello David,
I fully agree with what you say but it seems to me that most if not all Bugis krisses from Sulawesi were fitted with a simple passio sumange / toli-toli (made from string) just for hanging the kris to the belt. I am showing a typical specimen which is made from knitted silver wire on a string base, unfortunately the bottom loop is missing. I saw several worn-out passio sumange attached to old Bugis krisses in the 90's but none of these fancy silver pieces with rosettes which now flood the market.

Best regards

Beautiful keris Jean!

Jean · 29th May 2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Beautiful keris Jean!

Thanks Detlef. I bought this piece from a Bugis family established in Kalimantan, as you can see the blade is probably from Sumatra but I did not notice it at that time!

Regards

Battara · 30th May 2013, 01:02 AM

Great piece! So would you consider this an old toli-toli?

Also would this piece be considered nobility dress?

Jean · 30th May 2013, 09:10 AM

Hello Battara,
If you refer to my last piece, I would just consider the toli-toli as an used and standard model for everyday dress. The missing loop at the bottom uses the same materials as the top one and the binding string is more recent.
Regards

Gustav · 30th May 2013, 09:41 AM

A link to a thread with genuine old Passio Sumangge, and one of the most beautiful one, attached to a Keris of Sultan from Riau-Lingga:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=toli

Perhaps the earliest one with Passio Sumangge is the keris of August the Strong of Saxony, it's in Europe since 17. cent.

rasjid · 30th May 2013, 05:42 PM

Yes Alan, its written in Keris Bugis book.
As per Naga Sasra comment, attached sample my keris with passio sumange.
I think Andi irfan also written somewhere in this forum about passio sumange as well.

If you can see underneath there is a piece of paper which normally written something good for the owner or written prayer (As told to me by senior in bugis keris)
I just leave it as it is and stain the blade (personal preference)

Rasjid

David · 30th May 2013, 06:11 PM

Well, i guess we are not really getting any closer to the original intent of the passio sumange, though Andi has some interesting things to say here.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=99317
I'm not sure that Jean's hanging suggestion make sense since many of what appear to be earlier examples or not the simple cord variety that his or Rasjid's keris show. Also, the loop is on the front face of the sheath so i cannot see how it would hang well from a belt with this loop.

30th May 2013, 05:42 PM	#6
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Bugis Sulawesi Yes Alan, its written in Keris Bugis book. As per Naga Sasra comment, attached sample my keris with passio sumange. I think Andi irfan also written somewhere in this forum about passio sumange as well. If you can see underneath there is a piece of paper which normally written something good for the owner or written prayer (As told to me by senior in bugis keris) I just leave it as it is and stain the blade (personal preference) Rasjid Attached Images

30th May 2013, 01:02 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Great piece! So would you consider this an old toli-toli? Also would this piece be considered nobility dress?

30th May 2013, 09:10 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Battara, If you refer to my last piece, I would just consider the toli-toli as an used and standard model for everyday dress. The missing loop at the bottom uses the same materials as the top one and the binding string is more recent. Regards

30th May 2013, 09:41 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	A link to a thread with genuine old Passio Sumangge, and one of the most beautiful one, attached to a Keris of Sultan from Riau-Lingga: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=toli Perhaps the earliest one with Passio Sumangge is the keris of August the Strong of Saxony, it's in Europe since 17. cent.

30th May 2013, 06:11 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Well, i guess we are not really getting any closer to the original intent of the passio sumange, though Andi has some interesting things to say here. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=99317 I'm not sure that Jean's hanging suggestion make sense since many of what appear to be earlier examples or not the simple cord variety that his or Rasjid's keris show. Also, the loop is on the front face of the sheath so i cannot see how it would hang well from a belt with this loop.