silver keris toli-toli ( comments pls)

[Battara]

Thank you all folks! What I can partially conclude is that the earlier toli-tolis are not chased but wire filigree in all the work.

I like the last example posted, and that has better craftsmanship. It has silver filigree all over instead of chasing and embossing, which I admit is more difficult in this case.

I hope I am correct in my analysis of the metal work of the earlier toli-toli.


Another question: does the presence of a toli-toli make the keris a ceremonial piece or is it a sign of nobility (or could it be both)?

[mykeris]

here some samples I manged to pick up from a blog. Sure, the best. David, I think you should survey more.

[mykeris]

The one posted by Jean is about 30 years old, considered cool.

[David]

Originally Posted by mykeris

David, I think you should survey more.

I'm willing to survey as many as people care to post MyKeris, but that won't change my opinion about the one you originally posted.
These last two that you posted are of a much finer craft.
That very last one you posted seems quite unusual in style Eric, but i really like the workmanship. When do you suppose this one was made?

[Battara]

Lovely examples. I guess it is only the quality and not the style that determines age?

Otherwise, this is getting more confusing (the state where I live )

[mykeris]

Thanks David, hope to get more old samples from the others, tq in advance,

[mykeris]

I like the one you posted Erik. Looks genuine 1900s.

[Naga Sasra]

Hello everyone,
I have attached photos of two pieces with toli-toli, One is of a more recent make and one is quite old.
I believe we would be hasty to conclude that earlier toli-tolis are not either chased or embossed, but wire filigree. As always things are not always what they seem top be, especially when it comes to keris.
regards,
Erik

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

...does the presence of a toli-toli make the keris a ceremonial piece or is it a sign of nobility (or could it be both)?

Though i don't mind the beauty pageant displays of fine craftsmanship here i would love to see us get into some deeper questions about toli-toli in regards to how they fit into the social structure of the keris culture of that area.It seems that new toli-toli are simply being added to dress these days for commercial purposes, attracting buyers to the fancy, shiny bobbles. I am much more interested in the original intent of this aspect of dress, who could wear it when and why. While some of the more modern made toli-toli are indeed well crafted and beautiful they just don't seem appropriate or special anymore. What is the point of a king's crown when everybody is wearing one?

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I'm running on memory here, and I read the source some months ago, so I could be incorrect, but in the book on Bugis keris that came out a while ago I seem to recall that the reason given for the use of toli2 was that when somebody came into the presence of the ruler, the toli2 needed to be in place , and if it were not in place, the offending person got whacked right there with no questions asked.

Effectively it was to ensure that a succession by assassination did not occur.

There might have been subsidiary reasons also given, but what I seem to remember is what I have written. Anybody who has this book can check it easily.

I cannot check this book at the moment, as I have lent it a friend.

In fact, I have never seen an old example of one of these lavish toli2, the only ones I've ever seen have been made from plain, soft cord. I've seen a couple of pics of the extravagant work of art ones that were probably a bit old, but I've never the real thing in front of me.

[Naga Sasra]

The first example is of a very recent make, I picked it up in 1998, and it was purchased in and shipped from Lombok. The second example with the kinatah emas blade is different in that is has some age to it, it is estimated to have been made early to mid-20th century. I purchased it privately from a Canadian collection.
The recent pieces seem to start showing up on the market in the late part of the last century, and just checking EBay and others, they are not hard to find in various qualities.
In a much earlier post we were informed of the spiritual meaning of the Toli Toil and also advised that the correct name is “Passiosumange” which means ring of spirit. There is a belief that the wearer of the keris with Passiosumange attached will have a greater sense of what is happening in his area/home land. It is also noted that it is a symbol of high status.
However, the ornament is also called Tuli Tuli and also Tuli Tuli Batir Batir. This is translated in the Malay – English dictionary as follows;
Batir Batir, the golden band used to fasten the keris scabbard to the belt. Note: This band which is stiff and shaped like a hoop, is attached to the scabbard and is really more for ornament than for use. In the Malay Peninsula the term Tuli Tuli is used.
As for the original intent, it has been suggested that is a symbol of high status in society, which carry some logic with me, as the finer and more expensive materials used, the finer garap employed, the higher the price thus eliminating most people. I did see a photo of a pair of newlywed where the male had a keris with Toli Toli and will as such suggest it is worn for ceremonial purposes as well.
Perhaps some of our fellow forum members from the Malay world can expand on the true purpose and its original intent.
Regards,
Erik

[mykeris]

After reading all views, I must say... it is very difficult to determine age of a toli-toli sheath due to lack of research and genuine samples- the new look could be old...and the old could be the other...... I must thank you people for taking the effort posting images of your topi-toli kerises to this forum.

[David]

Originally Posted by mykeris

After reading all views, I must say... it is very difficult to determine age of a toli-toli sheath due to lack of research and genuine samples- the new look could be old...and the old could be the other...... I must thank you people for taking the effort posting images of your topi-toli kerises to this forum.

You give up too easily here MyKeris. I am not yet convinced that it is not possible to determine old and "genuine" versions of toli-toli from the flood of new ones that are now all over the web. Right now on eBay i see just the toli-toli for sale as a separate item so that one can simply buy it as an upgrade attachment to your current ensemble. Somehow this seems wrong-headed to me, simply a way to embellish a keris to command more resale value from it. To my mind these kind of thoughtless upgrades are counter to the entire concept of ethnographic collection.
The explanation that Alan puts forth is one that i have indeed heard before and it does make some kind of logical sense. Of course, if that is the case it makes me wonder exactly when this protocol was in place in the palace since Eric's older example is a stylized version that would not allow practical application of the toli-toli (still pretty slick looking though, innit? ). I would also be really interested in knowing what societal level within the culture would wear these. If Alan is correct then it makes some sense that only people who were of a high enough status to actually have an audience with the ruler would have toli-toli on their keris.

[mykeris]

Thanks David, I will certainly follow future postings in this forum. You know why? ...Because you people talk facts and logic. TQ again.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

If Alan is correct then it makes some sense that only people who were of a high enough status to actually have an audience with the ruler would have toli-toli on their keris.

Hello David,
I fully agree with what you say but it seems to me that most if not all Bugis krisses from Sulawesi were fitted with a simple passio sumange / toli-toli (made from string) just for hanging the kris to the belt. I am showing a typical specimen which is made from knitted silver wire on a string base, unfortunately the bottom loop is missing. I saw several worn-out passio sumange attached to old Bugis krisses in the 90's but none of these fancy silver pieces with rosettes which now flood the market.
Best regards

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello David,
I fully agree with what you say but it seems to me that most if not all Bugis krisses from Sulawesi were fitted with a simple passio sumange / toli-toli (made from string) just for hanging the kris to the belt. I am showing a typical specimen which is made from knitted silver wire on a string base, unfortunately the bottom loop is missing. I saw several worn-out passio sumange attached to old Bugis krisses in the 90's but none of these fancy silver pieces with rosettes which now flood the market.
Best regards

Beautiful keris Jean!